15-04-2003 05:34									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Hopefully it starts before we even get to Chivalry though. I think our biggest concern for the offensive should be efficiency. Knights are good to have around (and we will have several through upgrades), but shield for shield they cost more than what they do to produce. We have to worry about gaining ground on Vox (at that point it shouldn't be too hard), and not losing ground on all the other civs. I think our best offensive stack is going to be 4-5 Pikes, 4-5 Cats, Whatever Med Infantry we have, and a few Knights. A couple Settlers/Workers too. All the un-upgraded Horses and WC's along to take out the wounded, and garrison cities. We shouldn't try to blitz Vox with fast movers. We probably take them out faster that way, but it's far more costly to us. Let them attack Pikes defended with Cats, and get countered by Knights/Med Inf/Horses/WC's as we slowly march N.

Aeson, thanks... between this and some following posts, you have helped me crystallize my thinking.

1. Defense

a. First, absorb Vox' first punch. We have good kill zones for this. The greatest concern is down the Spinebreakers, followed by the Desert of Tears, followed by the southern coasts.

[EDIT: The hill next to Monsoon must be protected]

b. Pikemen as appropriate, MedInfs and WCs for the rest. I'm fine with our planning / execution in these regards thus far.

c. The southern coasts: as Aeson has ably pointed out, we have sufficient recon and local production capacity to deal with any reasonably likely threat.

2. Immediate Offensive Response

This is a very topical subject, given Iraq. We could go with a 1991 Powell Doctrine approach, or a very Rumsfeldian GW2 approach (the more you think about the parallels, the more eery... Persia, information advantage, production advantage, absurd disinformation on the world stage... weird). I believe that the Vox threat is completely over-stated (Twilight Zone theme), and believe that a fast, hard-hitting response is called for.

But what does that mean? First, not waiting for Knights (even upgraded en masse). It's ground-pounders on the Spinebreakers, right back at ya Vox!!! And what does that mean? WCs and Cats are non-deployable, and Horsies are useless.

a. Charge up the Spinebreakers with Pikes and MedInf. Mobile arty (i.e., Cats and Pikes) along the valleys to harass, with cavalry (i.e., WCs) to protect and slaughter anything in the open.

b. We reverse-funnel, in strength, right up to 2 of D-ville... and then take it.

c. More speed-war: Galleys up the west to the crossroads with two Pike and two MedInf.

3. Longer-Term Offense

a is for Arrian: Knights.
________________________

Implications:

A few Cats, for defense and then harassment. Too much mountain and jungle for anything else.

Pikes, certainly, but not overly so... you think Vox is dumb enough to burn their Immortal offense power on Pikes and Cats on mountains? Hey, I'll insult these guys (in fun) at the drop of a hat, but puh-lease... they'll dance across tough terrain first, and therefore we need something to take them out:

MEDIEVAL INFANTRY, people... look at the terrain! We are taking mountains and jungle... these are our US Marines (OOH RAH and Semper Fi!).

WCs and Horses sufficient for the *immediate task* and the Knights for the rest.
________________________

Theseus rests.

	15-04-2003 05:39									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson As long as they stay on Mountain and Jungle Tiles... let them attack us (4 vs 4 isn't as good odds as 6 vs 4).

What about when the are damaged? I'll throw a healthy MedInf against a redlined Immortal all day long... but not any of the other units at our disposal until Knights (consider the timingof when we will be faced with mountains and jungle).

	15-04-2003 05:59									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus What about when the are damaged? I'll throw a healthy MedInf against a redlined Immortal all day long... but not any of the other units at our disposal until Knights (consider the timingof when we will be faced with mountains and jungle).

And if they have three healthy, fortified spears we'd have to eat through before we can start going after the wounded immortals? I see an excellent possibilty that we might get a shot at wounded immortals left to fend for themselves in the Hurricane area if Vox tries to attack there, due to the small size of any force likely to invade there, but I seriously doubt that we'll see immortals without spear cover around Arashi.

	15-04-2003 06:16									#34
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I agree with redlined troops...but we aren't likely to see any on the Mountains (they aren't going to attack with Spears, so their Immortals will have defense as long as they stay on the Mountains).

The key is the Mountains 9, 3, and 2 of Arashi, both for them coming in, and going out. We can force them off the Mountains at that point coming in, take our shots... and hope they try to hit Arashi thinking there'd only be a couple Pikes in it.

If they instead try bypassing Arashi.. and try to get back on the Mountains... then we have the Mountain 3 of Arashi to keep them on the flats (but could only spare a Pike or two for it...). That's where we need another road ASAP (the Workers finishing the road 9's next job). A road 2 of Arashi will extend their stack even further if they are trying to get back on the Mountains. That way we can force them into attacking across a river and onto a mountain or walled hill city if they try to bypass Arashi on the E (on the W is suicide), giving us a bunch of shots with WC's/Horses.

	15-04-2003 09:49									#35
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You guys are giving Vox too much credit... I'm friggin' Rumsfeld here.

TRIP!! I need a journalist to yell at!!

	15-04-2003 09:51									#36
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Waiting for Lego to play their turn is excutiating.

	15-04-2003 10:01									#37
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and less than 20 minutes after I complain, here is the save

	15-04-2003 10:05									#38
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F-ck, now I gotta stay awake.

Please post ASAP.

	15-04-2003 10:57									#39
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I'm here, but we still don't have anything resembling a consensus on what wonder to build. I need to either play this turn quickly or leave it for sometime after 7:00 P.M. Apolyton time tomorrow. [Edit: Later today if you go by the calendar, but tomorrow by my sleep cycle .]

	15-04-2003 10:59									#40
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I'm here, but we still don't have anything resembling a consensus on what wonder to build. I need to either play this turn quickly or leave it for sometime after 7:00 P.M. Apolyton time tomorrow.

Thats a problem

can we go to a chat or something? would that help? many of us are online, but Alva, DeepO and FP and SR are all away. hmmm

	15-04-2003 10:59									#41
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Can you forward so we can examine the situation?

	15-04-2003 11:00									#42
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I'm here, but we still don't have anything resembling a consensus on what wonder to build. I need to either play this turn quickly or leave it for sometime after 7:00 P.M. Apolyton time tomorrow. [Edit: Later today if you go by the calendar, but tomorrow by my sleep cycle .]

Leave it. We were back stabbed. They violated a NAP.

We cannot be blamed for needing time to respond.

	15-04-2003 11:02									#43
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And whoever blames us can eat Theseus' wrath! Not just verbally, either.

	15-04-2003 11:03									#44
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Isn't there a timebank or something for such a situation? on ND's website?

	15-04-2003 11:05									#45
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel can we go to a chat or something? would that help? many of us are online, but Alva, DeepO and FP and SR are all away. hmmm

I'm here, but have to go to work in 30 minutes.

	15-04-2003 11:08									#46
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I'm sending out the opening screenshot. Since we have to do our tech research and build change before we can see anything more than what's on this, I'll hold off sending the save until that decision is made. Pay special attention to the east coast - Vox has a galley in the area and at least one immortal on the mountain 3 from our WC; does anyone still think we don't need Hurricane for troop production?

	15-04-2003 11:10									#47
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I just created #Balls on Poly's IRC. I can investigate whoever shows up before someone shows up with the ability to set a password.

	15-04-2003 11:10									#48
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I'm sending out the opening screenshot. Since we have to do our tech research and build change before we can see anything more than what's on this, I'll hold off sending the save until that decision is made. Pay special attention to the east coast - Vox has a galley in the area and at least one immortal on the mountain 3 from our WC; does anyone still think we don't need Hurricane for troop production?

A wise decision Nathan, the save would be too tempting to peek a little.

Hmm galley to the east. who woulda thunk

	15-04-2003 11:11									#49
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Ohh, look at that. #gatheringstorm allowed me in.

	15-04-2003 11:13									#50
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At least they aren't bringing them down clear to Hurricane to land yet... get a Sword on the mountain 6 of Sandstorm to at force them to hurt themselves getting through us or to drop off the mountains... possibly put the other two swords on the Mountains they could land by Hurricane (make sure the Vets are on the roaded ones, Iron and 6 of Sandstorm) and bring a WC to Hurricane.

	15-04-2003 11:14									#51
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Is #gatheringstorm where we want to meet, then?

	15-04-2003 11:14									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson At least they aren't bringing them down clear to Hurricane to land yet... get a Sword on the mountain 6 of Sandstorm to at force them to hurt themselves getting through us or to drop off the mountains... possibly put the other two swords on the Mountains they could land by Hurricane (make sure the Vets are on the roaded ones, Iron and 6 of Sandstorm) and bring a WC to Hurricane.

This is exactly why we need to kill that galley. eventually they are going to realize they could land a few spaces further south.

	15-04-2003 11:16									#53
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Damn. atw and nathan got kicked. Yopu didn't register?

Go to #Balls. I can verify identies by whois.

	15-04-2003 11:18									#54
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I've joined balls


edit: that nye looks funny


edit2: nye looks funny

	15-04-2003 11:19									#55
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and?

/Edit. That's a pass for you.

	15-04-2003 11:20									#56
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Actually the Galley is working well IMO.

Our worst fear is the mass of Immortals hitting Arashi... If they split up, we can kill more Immortals and less Spears to hurt them. EotS pumping out a Pike a turn is going to leave nowhere for them to land somewhat quickly. (by next drop?)

	15-04-2003 11:22									#57
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I'm in #balls

	15-04-2003 11:22									#58
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Sir Ralph looks funny. :P

	15-04-2003 11:25									#59
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That's a pass for Aeson.

Honest SR, I required him to say it.

	15-04-2003 11:26									#60
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I would have said it anyways!