15-04-2003 20:18									#1
	Do we want a City Infocenter thread? Increase the size of your Attachments

In the next post should be a table showing the current status of our cities - it's incomplete and very much a work-in-progress at present. I just want to get some feedback before I put time into updating and polishing it.

Questions:
1) Is this useful? HTML tables are a nightmare to manipulate, but I don't mind updating this table for each turn if people will find it helpful.

2) Does anyone have any better ideas about how we can display this information? I had thought of an Excel file - much easier to maintain - but I don't know how to get it to appear in a post. Screenshots wouldn't be practical. Is there a better way?

	15-04-2003 20:19									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

code:
Name
 
Size
 
Buildings
Garrison
Producing


Eye of the Storm
 
10 - 4
 
CITYBUILDING
CITYGARRISON
War Chariot 1

Tempest
 
6 - 4
 
CITYBUILDING
CITYGARRISON
Pikeman 3

Bolderburg
 
6 - 11
 
CITYBUILDING
CITYGARRISON
War Chariot 1






Tornado
 

6 - 20
 

CITYBUILDING


CITYGARRISON


War Chariot 1







Typhoon
 

5 - 13
 

CITYBUILDING


CITYGARRISON


Galley - 2







Hurricane
 

11 - 4
 

CITYBUILDING


CITYGARRISON


Pikeman - 2








Cyclone
 

4 - 1
 

CITYBUILDING


CITYGARRISON


Worker - 2







Sandstorm
 

1 - 1
 

CITYBUILDING


CITYGARRISON


Worker - 5






Monsoon
 

1 - 3
 

CITYBUILDING


CITYGARRISON


Temple - 14






Whirlwind
 

1 - 20
 

CITYBUILDING


CITYGARRISON


Catapult - 10






Olibanum Gate
 

1 - 6
 

CITYBUILDING


CITYGARRISON


Temple - 8






Arashi
 

4 - x
 

CITYBUILDING


CITYGARRISON


Walls - 1






Sufa
 

3 - 6
 

CITYBUILDING


CITYGARRISON


Galley - 5

Last edited by Aeson on 15-04-2003 at 22:57

	15-04-2003 20:20									#3
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If somebody who knows HTML could edit the above post and work out why there is a huge blank space above the table I would be very grateful.

It's got me stumped!

	15-04-2003 21:32									#4
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Good work.

A request, though I know it means more work, sorry:

Can we have a column for barracks/no barracks? That way, we don't look at a city w/o barracks and suggest building units there.

-Arrian

	15-04-2003 22:18									#5
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Good idea, Arrian, I'm doing that now.

Also, I'm still very confused about why the table has a big blank space above it. I saved the code as a text file with the .html extension, loaded it up in IE and it looked perfect. Why won't it work in the forum? Anyone know?

	15-04-2003 22:28									#6
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I think that's what we have the buildings column for. Still, you raise a good point - if we have something like this, it's important that we can see immediately which cities have barracks. I suggest that barracks that appear in the list of buildings for a city will be bolded or colored or something.
I'd also suggest a column titled "Infrastructure", which could contain the values none, lacking (not all worked land tiles are fully improved), sufficient (all worked land tiles are fully improved) and overdone (or any other name that fits; all worked land tiles and some additional tiles within the city radius are fully improved).
This could turn out to be very useful. We can all keep it up-to-date thanks to the editing bug. It needs to be formatted into a more editing-friendly form first - I can do this later, after we've agreed on the structure of the template.

Dunno about the HTML thing though, sorry. This is not the first time I see this problem - perhaps you should ask in off-topic what is wrong with your code.

	15-04-2003 22:33									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber This could turn out to be very useful. We can all keep it up-to-date thanks to the editing bug. It needs to be formatted into a more editing-friendly form first - I can do this later, after we've agreed on the structure of the template.

Thanks.

What follows (prolly miles down the page ) is a more updated layout. I'm off now to get some actual data from the save to go into those cells.

code:


Name
Size
Buildings
Barracks?
Garrison
Producing




Eye of the Storm

10 - 4

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

War Chariot 1



Tempest

6 - 4

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

Pikeman 3



Bolderburg

6 - 11

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

War Chariot 1



Tornado

6 - 20

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

War Chariot 1



Typhoon

5 - 13

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

Galley - 2



Hurricane

11 - 4

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

Pikeman - 2



Cyclone

4 - 1

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

Worker - 2



Sandstorm

1 - 1

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

Worker - 5



Monsoon

1 - 3

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

Temple - 14



Whirlwind

1 - 20

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

Catapult - 10



Olibanum Gate
 

1 - 6
 

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

Temple - 8



Arashi

4 - x

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

Walls - 1



Sufa
 

3 - 6
 

CITYBUILDING

RAX??

CITYGARRISON

Galley - 5

	15-04-2003 22:34									#8
	Tired of ads?

Yep, it's done it again.

I'll PM Markos about this, I'd rather not post the code in the OT because that would mean having to edit out all the sensitve data first.

	15-04-2003 22:49									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

Slight problem: I can only note the Garrisons for each vity from the BEGINNING of the turn, not the end - because that's all I see when I open the save. Without knowing every single move Nathan made I can't know how things were moved around.

Unless Nathan (or whoever plays the turn) wants to update the Garrisons in this table every turn then the info will always be 1 turn behind. Does greatly devalue the usefulness of this table? Shall I even bother with the Garrison column?

	15-04-2003 22:58									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Make sure to wrap all html in the CODE /CODE tags (in []'s)

	15-04-2003 23:00									#11
	Remove this text

code:


Name
Size
Buildings
Barracks?
Garrison
Producing



Eye of the Storm

10(4)

Palace
Granary

YES

-

War Chariot 1




Tempest

6(4)

-

YES

Vet: WC

Pikeman 3




Bolderberg

6(11)

-

YES

-

War Chariot 1




Tornado

6(20)

-

YES

-

War Chariot 1




Typhoon

5(13)

Temple

-

-

Galley 2




Hurricane

11(4)

Great Lighthouse

YES

Vet: Sword (2)

Pikeman 2




Cyclone

4(1)

Granary

-

-

Worker 2




Sandstorm

1(1)

-

-

-

Worker 5




Monsoon

1(3)

-

-

-

Temple 14




Whirlwind

1(20)

???

???

???

Catapult 10




Olibanum Gate
 

1(6)
 

-

-

-

Temple 8




Arashi

4(x)

-

YES

Vet: Spear (2), Sword (1), WC (2)
Reg: Sword (2), Warrior (1)

Walls 1




Sufa
 

3(6)
 

-

-

-

Galley 5








77 of Eots

1 Vet WC



9 of Arashi

1 Vet Sword



999 of Arashi

1 Vet WC, 1 Elite WC



99996 of Arashi

1 Elite WC



9 of Hurricane

1 Reg Sword



6 of Monsoon

1 Vet Spear, 1 Reg Warrior

Last edited by FrustratedPoet on 16-04-2003 at 00:01

	15-04-2003 23:01									#12
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and you don't need the HTML or BODY tags... just the table itself (that's what the smaller gap left is)

	15-04-2003 23:02									#13
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I'm a fool!

Aeson:

It needs some formatting work, but that's a huge help.



Markos: If you ever read this, sorry to have bothered you with the PM.

	15-04-2003 23:09									#14
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It's one of those things that just isn't that intuitive IMO. I had the same problem myself back when I first was trying to post tables.

	15-04-2003 23:11									#15
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FP:

Great idea, sorry you couldn't make it to the chat

	15-04-2003 23:23									#16
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OK, the most recent version I posted is the one I'm sticking with for now. If anyone has any more ideas/comments/criticism please speak up!

There are a few issues, particularly the discrepancy between the screenshot data (usually from end of turn) and the in-game data (always from start of turn). Any ideas how to solve this?

	15-04-2003 23:36									#17
	Remove this text

FP, awesome, you da man.

Are those the correct garrisons?

	15-04-2003 23:39									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Why do Britons and Americans always mix up the germanic suffixes -burg and -berg? Burg means castle, Berg means mountain. There is a difference between them.

It's not Bamburg, but Bamberg
It's not Heidelburg, but Heidelberg
and finally, it's not Bolderburg, but Bolderberg

Dammit!

	15-04-2003 23:39									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Theseus Are those the correct garrisons?

Those are the military units that were on the city tiles at the start of our last turn (inlcuding units just completed, which is where the WC in Tempest comes in).

Without knowing exactly where each unit was moved, and which units were upgraded, I can't provide any data for the end of the turn. This can only be done by the player.

	15-04-2003 23:42									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

Remember to include units NOT in cities, like those 9 of Arashi.

	15-04-2003 23:43									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph and finally, it's not Bolderburg, but Bolderberg

Fixed.

	15-04-2003 23:45									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Remember to include units NOT in cities, like those 9 of Arashi.

It's on the wish-list.

	15-04-2003 23:46									#23
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Fixed.

Ok, since this is addressed, I can wave you a "Good job".

	15-04-2003 23:48									#24
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Damn, we don't have enough in Arashi to defend Monsoon. We're gonna lose that town.

-Arrian

	15-04-2003 23:56									#25
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Suggestion: ditch the barracks column, and write barracks inside the buildings column, but italicize them.

	16-04-2003 00:02									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Why do Britons and Americans always mix up the germanic suffixes -burg and -berg? Burg means castle, Berg means mountain. There is a difference between them. It's not Bamburg, but Bamberg It's not Heidelburg, but Heidelberg and finally, it's not Bolderburg, but Bolderberg Dammit!

When will Germans learn that there is something like Dutch too, which is not some dialect of German? There exists no "burg" for the simple reason that in that case it would be written "burcht". Bolderberg is very certainly a Dutch name, meaning there is no doubt, it should be written with an "e"

DeepO

	16-04-2003 00:03									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Suggestion: ditch the barracks column, and write barracks inside the buildings column, but italicize them.

To be honest, I prefer it this way, but if others would like it changed I'd be more than happy to do so. What do you think guys?

I've added in some info on military units outside cities. Again, these come from the very beginning of the turn.

	16-04-2003 00:08									#28
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Excellent work, FP.

	16-04-2003 00:09									#29
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO When will Germans learn that there is something like Dutch too, which is not some dialect of German? There exists no "burg" for the simple reason that in that case it would be written "burcht". Bolderberg is very certainly a Dutch name, meaning there is no doubt, it should be written with an "e" DeepO

That was why I wrote germanic and not german. The Dutch are surely not German, since Bismarck forgot about them in 1871 . But they can't refuse to be Germanic, though.

	16-04-2003 00:17									#30
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By the way, the difference between "-burg" and "-berg" can be easily verified. There can very well be a "Burg" on the "Berg". But if there is a "Berg" on the "Burg", the knights are seriously screwed.