21-04-2003 08:49									#91
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I like the idea of a pike for two reasons: (1) it gives us more total power if Vox forks Tempest and Arashi and (2) it gives us a better chance of freeing up a pair of pikes for an anti-road offensive in the west (in case our eastern galleys and/or pikemen are too tied up for an eastern strike in the same timeframe).

I agree with that. Especially since a Cat cannot get to the critical tile, H8.

	21-04-2003 08:58									#92
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither We are nowhere near safe, and short rushes at Tornado for offensive power would be money very well spent. /Edit. And Cats elsewhere.

If most of Vox's force crumbles against the walls of Arashi, and if nothing new lands around Hurricane or is left in a position to, I think we'll have more than enough production to deal with Vox without supplementing our production with rushing. And Tornado is a terrible place to do short rushing; depending on how it's configured, it can build three-turn medieval infantry or (at the expense of other cities' growth rates) two-turn horsemen.

	21-04-2003 09:00									#93
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Really? 1 turn on MedInf, switch to WC, rush, back to MedInf. That gives a reliable 2 turn MedInf. How much?

/Edit. Sorry. Switch to Pike and rush. How much?

Last edited by notyoueither on 21-04-2003 at 09:06

	21-04-2003 09:10									#94
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If we'd get Tornado up to 15 shields for the high-production half of the cycle, we'd be looking at 60 gold per third of a medieval infantry (compared with the city's normal production rate), or 180 gold per extra medieval infantry. At that price, for less than the cost of having two extra medieval infantry, we could rush the remainder of an aqueduct in Tempest after a one-turn start.

	21-04-2003 09:17									#95
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Hmm. I count 64 gold on the second turn to rush a Pike, then switch to MedInf for a net 2 turn MedInf.

Costs 64 gold every 2 turns, or 32 per turn.

	21-04-2003 09:21									#96
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Your calculations are based on 14 production; I based mine on the best-case (in terms of cost solely for that one city) assumption of putting production up to 15 for the first turn.

The cost is 30 or 32 per turn, but you only get one extra medieval infantry per six turns out of the deal (three per six turns instead of two per six turns). So the cost is 180 or 192 per extra medieval infantry. That's an awful lot to pay for a combat unit.

	21-04-2003 09:30									#97
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Well, this is not critical for this turn, but I for one do not see extra attacking ability at 32 per turn being a bad investment.

Over 12 turns, that's 6 vets instead of 4.

Given that we are still Weak, I think this is going to be a very near run thing in the best case. Of course, the issue may be largely decided this turn or next at Arashi, but I am not counting any chickens before they hatch (or pull their switch blades and rough up Vox for that matter).

	21-04-2003 09:30									#98
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I just checked our culture, and we're over half of Vox's but not by much. Still, with a temple and the Great Lighthouse, we probably won't be losing ground in percentage terms.

	21-04-2003 09:37									#99
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Posted for amusement value.

	21-04-2003 09:40									#100
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Note that I said "I'm hoping." If Vox is still strong compared with us, I agree that we need to keep rushing units. If they're average, or especially if they're weak, I'd rather focus on upgrading whatever is left of our seven remaining swordsmen to medieval infantry and then on research or on infrastructure investment.

	21-04-2003 09:41									#101
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Posted for amusement value.

I saw that avatar, hilarious.


Good job with the turn guys. Maybe Vox will hold a turn chat while they are attacking Arashi and let us in

	21-04-2003 09:43									#102
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Shall I go ahead and finish the turn, using the pike short-rush alternative?

	21-04-2003 09:48									#103
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I say go.

	21-04-2003 09:50									#104
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(as if my vote matters, I'm just along for the ride, especially tonight )

	21-04-2003 09:58									#105
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Switch on the 'ask after completing unit' option...

As for the Pike, I think we have to plan for the worst at this time. If we break into the build queue and see that Arashi has slaughtered Vox Immortals then we could switch Bolderberg to a Horseman, but if Vox does well or bypasses Arashi, we need more Pikes.

	21-04-2003 13:56									#106
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Turn sent, after a delay due to my Internet connection's being down.

	21-04-2003 16:14									#107
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Looking good...

I agree that, even if it costs us a lot, we need to keep spending gold on units for now. I too would love some cash for aquaducts, but we can't do that now, IMHO.

However, using workers as rush-seeds is a bit too much, we are going to need all the pop-points we can get soon. As fast as possible, we should get Cyclone back into 1-turn workers, because over time that is one of the best chances we have of staying even with Lego's growth. Right now, it is no option, but please don't disband workers if we can avoid it. Those are worth more then the 48 or so gold they can save in rushing.

DeepO

	21-04-2003 19:00									#108
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quote: Our cat hit

Things seem to be going ok. But what's the deal with GoW?

-Arrian

	21-04-2003 19:34									#109
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No deal. They try, for the moment, to get us in a flame war on the public forum, without actually attacking us. And let's hope it stays that way...

DeepO

	21-04-2003 19:40									#110
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Yeah, let's hope so. Even though they can't do much to hurt us, being at war with them would be an unwanted distraction, and might give other civs ideas re: a pile-on.

Speaking of which, I noticed that Jon Miller said something about "help from Bob" in his chat with NYE. That either has to mean we were right about RP financing this operation, or that they have some sort of deal with GoW.

-Arrian

	21-04-2003 19:44									#111
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Did we resent fuedalism to ND?

	21-04-2003 19:54									#112
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Alva, I agree it's best to know first if a deal was offered, but we should send a diplo message to them anyway.

As to GoW: let's see what their new government decides. My biggest fear is that, by declaring war, they think it to be honorable to violate our NDA. Maybe we should remind them that if they do so, they are making them our arch enemies.

DeepO

	21-04-2003 20:45									#113
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They didn't this turn, and as far as I could tell, no one has researched anything beyond fuedalism.
-
Are there any plans for Monsoon 2? A road there would be very nice.

	24-04-2003 04:50									#114
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It's good to be back
Now let's see some action!

Btw, when we receive next turn, could we please check governments? I wonder if Lego has switched yet, and what's keeping them from switching if they haven't.

	24-04-2003 05:19									#115
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So what's the dealio, yo??!!

ARRGGHHH, private fora everywhere, and not a drop of Vox blood to drink!!

	24-04-2003 05:50									#116
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IT'S ALIVE!!



-Arrian

	24-04-2003 06:12									#117
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So good to be back home!

*zeit kisses the ground*

"Dammit!, who brought all those chickens"

Still watching you from an internet-cafe', but on monday i'm back home, and then victory is surely ours!

	24-04-2003 06:26									#118
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zeit,

You still in NYC?

Richard Podos
50 E 96 St, Apt 2B
h: 212-828-1586
c: 917-863-9991

Come'on up!!!! DSL and WiFi.

Hopefully the GODDAMN Vox save will be here soon...

	24-04-2003 17:06									#119
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Zeit! Welcome home!
Actually I'm feeling pretty much the same after Poly was down for several days.

	25-04-2003 11:07									#120
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quote: Originally posted by zeit *zeit kisses the ground*

Be sure the plane has landed before doing that, your lips might burn

wb, Zeit!

DeepO