25-04-2003 02:15									#1
	Why are a higher percentage of Canadians dieing of SARS? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I heard it's 10% among Canadians, and 4% among asians. Heard it during the Poly down time, don't recall where.

Also, I get a cold a couple times a winter. Will I get SARS a couple times a winter? It's a version of cold virus, yes?

	25-04-2003 02:26									#2
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Yes, Lancer. You'll get SARS a couple of times a year.

	25-04-2003 02:26									#3
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Both Asian and Canadian death figures seem high to me.

But the weather must have a huge impact. IIRC both Vancouver and Toronto were hit without warning on the same day (Thanks China) by the arrival of overseas passengers. The outbreak seems largely contained here but much more contagious in TO where it was still winter when the crisis hit.

	25-04-2003 02:33									#4
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The fatality rate may be reported higher in Canada due to better record keeping and the willingness to report the true number.

	25-04-2003 03:05									#5
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I think it's the French blood. Makes the people weak.

	25-04-2003 03:13									#6
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*accidently slaps Drake*

Toronto's British Canada honey, with more non-Anglo/Francais ethnic groups than you can shake a stick at.

It's like rah said. The Canadians actually report their cases unlike our dear friends in Beijing HQ. Add to that the fact that Toronto's quite a bit colder this time of year than Guangdong and the higher death rate makes sense.

Though, with my ear to the ground watching the news/web, and chatting to family in Toronto, I haven't heard about this big a difference in deathrates based upon location. Anyone verify the Canadians dropping like SARS infected flies?

	25-04-2003 03:13									#7
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I think the truth lies in RAH's AND Drake's answer.

	25-04-2003 03:16									#8
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There may also be more Canadians who have it and have not been diagnosed with it, or more Chinese who have been attributed it than have actually had it. (?)

Last edited by Dauphin on 25-04-2003 at 03:46

	25-04-2003 03:31									#9
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Sloww, it's confirmed to be a varient of a cold virus. You only remain immune after having a cold for a couple of weeks, then you can get the exact same virus again, or so I've heard.

So, my point is that we're dealing with a cold gone mad, but still a cold. You can get them again and again...

Speculation is that this virus survives on surfaces for up to 24 hours.

I'm impressed. This is looking like it might be...check out time for alot of us. A new world, totally changed in many ways, economic... In parts of asia people don't go out any more. This seems to be making lots of folks very sick, but killing older people. I've heard that smokers are particularly at risk.

Anyway, I find SARS to be very interesting. I've been waiting for something to come around and restore the balance to this planet, and I wonder if this is it.

	25-04-2003 03:36									#10
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It may be a virus, but I still didn't see it as a cold.
Not that I'm a sawbones or anything.


Why can't these foreigners just keep their dread diseases to themselves?
They should have to pay some kind of import fee.

	25-04-2003 03:36									#11
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it's that universal health care stuff. not many canadians are off dying in caves.

	25-04-2003 03:38									#12
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It figures that the next worldwide pandemic would have to break out in Asia a few months before I move to Japan. It's all a damn conspiracy against me, I swear.

	25-04-2003 03:43									#13
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Latest Health Canada Stats: 178 probable cases, 16 deaths.

Part of the issue may be the definition of 'probable' v. 'suspect' cases. There doesn't seem to be a reliable test for SARS yet so Canadian doctors may classify people who get sick with symptoms similar to SARS differently.

	25-04-2003 03:43									#14
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SARS is related to the common cold in the fact that they both belong to the same family of virii called coronaviruses. Whether SARS displays the extreme mutability of it's cousin is something still to be seen.

	25-04-2003 03:43									#15
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand It may be a virus, but I still didn't see it as a cold. Not that I'm a sawbones or anything. Why can't these foreigners just keep their dread diseases to themselves? They should have to pay some kind of import fee.

There have been fewer cases yet in Canada. If the disease happened to hit a pocket of people who were more vulnerable (elderly, chronically ill) among a relatively small number of those afflicted the death rate would be higher. This is a potential source of error when comparing events affecting a small number of people with a larger group - random chance will have a larger effect on the smaller group.

I also seem to recall that some of the people who spread the disease from Hong Kong to Canada were health care workers, who would be in a position to spread the illness to a sicker population, i.e., people who are seeking medical care.

	25-04-2003 03:46									#16
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quote: Whether SARS displays the extreme mutability of it's cousin is something still to be seen.

Let's hope it doesn't.

	25-04-2003 04:26									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Anyway, I find SARS to be very interesting. I've been waiting for something to come around and restore the balance to this planet, and I wonder if this is it.

A 4 to 10% global mortality rate isn't going to wipe out humanity, although it will destroy the world economy in a way that we have not seen before.

I wouldn't be surprised if particular genotypes are more suceptible (different immunoglobulin alleles mainly), and if it does manage to get to all the susceptible people we'll be almost completely immune within a generation or two, although obviously at an unacceptable(?) cost.

But seeing as it threatens the Western way of life more than say HIV or malaria, i wouldn't be surprised if millions of dollars/euros will be spent to manufacture a cure/vaccine within the next year or so, thus limiting the impact on the Western world. It will end up being just another disease that plagues the Third World.

	25-04-2003 04:46									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I also seem to recall that some of the people who spread the disease from Hong Kong to Canada were health care workers, who would be in a position to spread the illness to a sicker population, i.e., people who are seeking medical care.

I remember differently. Health care workers treated infected people prior to any awareness of what the disease was. They caught it from the people returning from the far east. Then they spread it because of the long incubation period.

As far as the disease being more virulant among 'specific genotypes', no evidence of that at all. Many of the infected in Canada were asian Canadians, but that seems to be because of the disease's vector.

	25-04-2003 05:13									#19
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lightblue, if you can get it a couple times every winter, like a cold...

It might not "wipe out humanity", but it might take out 4 to 10% each go round. That's my concern. My wife and I will play the odds, double up on vitamin C, lay in some chicken soup, and live through it God willing.

If it happens multiple times a season...it might take years, decades, but eventually alot more than 4-10% will die... Too bad for those that die, those that live will do so in a planet that is more in balance. The fish will repopulate the seas, the jungle take over the logged off areas, the ozone layer fill in its hole...

There will be land for the landless, starving people living on garbage at dumps in the third world, if they survive...

	25-04-2003 06:04									#20
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One doctor in Hong Kong said the fatality rate should be a comparison between those who have recovered and those who have died. In HK, that would be a fatality rate of 16% (dead/dead + recovered).

	25-04-2003 09:55									#21
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Using the same formula, the fatality rate in Toronto is also 16%. So there doesn't seem to be a difference between Canadian and "Asian" fatality rates.

	25-04-2003 09:58									#22
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According to that f*cking retarded formula.

	25-04-2003 10:11									#23
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There is also the reality that most of the people that have died have been elderly and/or they have had other serious medical problems. It did not apear that the current variant is killing healthy adults at all.

However I do recall reading that there were worries that some adult infected persons were showing increased/worsened symptoms and there were fears that it could be fatal to them

	25-04-2003 10:56									#24
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Tingkai, what is the general level of fear in HK? If people are a bit paraniod here, a few wearing masks and such, are people there taking even more precautions?

There is a sense here that Chinese blew it big time over here and that the two recent high profile resignations were little more than window-dressing. Any anger in Hong Kong directed at Bejing?

	25-04-2003 11:21									#25
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No anger at Beijing. People are too busy being pissed off at the Hong Kong government. The latest headline is about doctors complaining that the government still has not provided enough protective gear for them. One newspaper has started a fundraising campaign to buy proper masks, gloves, etc for medical personnel.

There was a lot of panic at the initial stages, but people have calmed down, or resigned themselves to the fact that there is only so much that they can do.

	25-04-2003 15:23									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer lightblue, if you can get it a couple times every winter, like a cold... It might not "wipe out humanity", but it might take out 4 to 10% each go round. That's my concern. My wife and I will play the odds, double up on vitamin C, lay in some chicken soup, and live through it God willing. If it happens multiple times a season...it might take years, decades, but eventually alot more than 4-10% will die... Too bad for those that die, those that live will do so in a planet that is more in balance. The fish will repopulate the seas, the jungle take over the logged off areas, the ozone layer fill in its hole... There will be land for the landless, starving people living on garbage at dumps in the third world, if they survive...

Well, if you don't die from it the first time, there's little reason to expect you dying from it the second time, unless the virus has mutated drastically.

Also it seems that the majority of dead are over the age of 60, and most were immuno comprimised to some degree. Of course there are exceptions, but as we don't the medical histories of these patients you can't really draw any conclusions.

	25-04-2003 16:02									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai One doctor in Hong Kong said the fatality rate should be a comparison between those who have recovered and those who have died. In HK, that would be a fatality rate of 16% (dead/dead + recovered).

I think it should be number of dead over total number of cases.

	25-04-2003 16:05									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber There is also the reality that most of the people that have died have been elderly and/or they have had other serious medical problems. It did not apear that the current variant is killing healthy adults at all.

Most deaths are the elderly or ones with other choronic medical problems. There are a handful of cases of healthy adult deaths, but that can't be avoided. Even the common cold can kill you if the virus gets into some vital organs.

	25-04-2003 16:08									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I think it should be number of dead over total number of cases.

Which is what dead/(dead+recovered) equals. Unless you want to include infected, but over the long termn they die or recover.

If the formula being used before was the dead to recovered ratio then I don't see it making that much of a difference to the mortality rate, maybe reduce it by about 0.5-1.0 % for both Toronto and HK, but it certainly wouldn't bring the rates into parity.

	25-04-2003 16:10									#30
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The local SARS situation as of today, FWIW. It seems that it's getting under control as more people are discharged from hospitals than admitted to hospitals with the disease.