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Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 04:04
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Does it even need to be said that we dislike having our deals broken? Certainly our reaction to Vox should have made that clear to everyone. Would we need to be told by one of the other teams that they wouldn't like it if we broke agreements with them? That's why I'd consider such a statement borderline insulting, and probably comes off condescending as well.

GoW has broken an agreement already. I can't see them not breaking another agreement just because we tell them not to in any case. The others have no agreement with us, and they must realize we'd be less than pleased if they are involved with GoW breaking the terms of the trade. If they go through with it, it's because they just don't care what we think about them.

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 04:50
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I don;t think our agreement with GoW has any bearing on the other teams. That we had an NDA in place with one does not in any way bind the others.

What we can say, if and when the time is right, is that we believe that part of the reason GoW initiated an act of war was in fact to break the agreement, with some 'ostensible' honor (possibly also disclosing the other nefarious goals).

And that that is something to remember when making deals with GoW.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 05:14
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If we're going to decide to send a warning to the other teams, I would be in favor of also mentioning GoW's attempt at a ruse.

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 05:16
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Nope, we should have done that before we attacked them, too late now.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 05:24
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I don't understand.
Can't we still tell other teams what they tried to do?

Edit: on second thought, maybe it's not such a good idea... it'll send out a clear message that GS reveals secret information entrusted to it. Sure, it's ethical to spill the beans on GoW if they betrayed us, but still, people will get that sense of us.

Last edited by Shiber on 26-04-2003 at 05:35

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 05:46
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It's not because we ARE honest, that people will believe it.
They could be thinking we are the ones setting up a ruse.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 06:05
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Oh, now I get your point. Yes, I think you're right.

Dominae is offline Dominae
Emperor

Jan 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 07:02
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Sooo...how do we deal with our sudden jump of power (coming very soon now) on the diplomatic stage? I believe it is going to take a lot of work to prevent most if not all teams from banding against us at this point. Our Great Leader is a mixed blessing: on the one hand, we jump in power and get to deny Bob a Wonder every team there would kill to have; on the other, Bobian teams may forget their differences for now and focus on us.


Dominae

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 07:15
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I say we need to continue our diplomatic efforts with respect to ND & Lego... they seem to be the teams we have the best shot at being friendly with (in game).

Vox - enemy
GoW - enemy, for now at least
RP - their leader has a personal beef with us, they may be funding our main opponent

ND - mystery, but has been cordial
Lego - builders, seem friendly.

It seems to me that those are the two we should focus on. Vox & RP appear to be lost causes diplomatically, while GoW is a wildcard (hell, they're mercs!).

-Arrian

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 07:21
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Any ideas on how FP should present this turn on the forum?

I would suggest low key. Something along the lines of moderate successes seen in limited operations.

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 07:34
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To be honest, I think whatever we say, will be used against us.
A no win situation basically.
-

Sure, diplomaty has to continue, just not to much in public

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 07:37
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quote:
Bobian teams may forget their differences for now and focus on us.

You could be right, but i really think their UU coming at the same time is gonna be our saviour in this case.
Unless of course they would trust each other blindly and play as one team, but hey, there is nothing we can/could do about that.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 08:19
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Two options:

1) Say little.

2) Do a "GS War report" including casualties inflicted (with GS losses listed as "light").

Both have their advantages. #1 has the advantage of giving no intelligence to other teams.

#2 has the advantage of being kinda neat, the way Vox has been with their war reports, and thus might help us a *bit* on the diplo front. Still, I dunno if that is worth it.

I guess I favor saying as little as possible.

-Arrian

The whole world is against us, man, I swear to god [/Dogma]

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 08:27
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I think we should say something, but I definitely favour keeping on the light side (as in skimpy on info). Part of our problem is the appearance of being too aloof. Saying nothing reinforces that.

Be that as it may, I also favour tight control over the message, which is why I favour one of us keeping track and being our face to the world. We can advise FP, but we will have to rely on him to a great extent to lead in this arena.

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 08:28
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I'd go with the 'say little' option. I think it will be readily apparent we got a Leader, and so we might want to say something about it. It's a very big thing and gives the impression we're giving out a lot of info when it's going out anyways.

We probably take a diplo hit from most teams for getting this Leader, but I think it will be less if we don't just blindside the other teams with our new Wonder.

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 08:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeson
We probably take a diplo hit from most teams for getting this Leader, but I think it will be less if we don't just blindside the other teams with our new Wonder.


I agree with this.

I think it would be funny if say, Arrian or Theseus used Ramses as their Avatar and have something like "Grog has been avenged" as their location.


Then they post some random thought, and let the others think about it for a while. then post a note confirming it

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 08:36
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I like that Asleep! I really like that.



I agree with NYE that our main image problem is being "aloof" and therefore, I figure some light-hearted roleplay would do us some good. And very few people would actually believe we pulled off the Great Lightouse & Sun Tzu while under heavy attack.

-Arrian

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 10:37
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GhengisFarb posted something I'm having a hard time not responding to. The response that tempts me so strongly (in reference to GoW's horses):

I guess you could say they worked... a little... for a while.

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
Emperor
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Mar 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 12:00 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by nbarclay
I guess you could say they worked... a little... for a while.


I know, it's VERY tempting to say that isn't it? I actually started typing something in the Quick Reply box before I cam to my senses and decided to keep my mouth shut.

Thanks for all the advice so far guys.

I'll write something up - something Roleplay-ish, but not too triumphalist and not mentioning our GL - today and post it here for approval. If you want only minimal changes it can be posted on the public forum within 24 hours.

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 12:13
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Well.. here's something probably 'too triumphalist' and mentioning our GL.

-----------------------------

Rumors of war decended from the Spinebreaker, as did wave after wave of Immortals in their blood red uniforms. Scouts brought in news of raiders carrying a black standard landing on the Western shore. The garrison at Arashi stood ready. "Our Nation's fate rests in your hands today" the General almost whispered, the troops hardly taking notice. Each knew his duty, and each knew their commander had no place on the frontier.

No one understood this better than the General's Charioteer, who had been granted the post as a favor to his late father. A father who had voluntarily taken the most dangerous post in the military, and wanted his son to have the safest. "The only battle I'll see is the General's aide de camp trying to fit him into his uniform" the Charioteer thought to himself. Tears of frustration welled in his eyes as he saw the Chariots headed out into the field without him.

The main body of troops headed North to meet the Immortals. A small group branching off to meet the new seaborne threat to the West. From the vantage point of a hill near Arashi the General watched impatiently, constantly inquiring as to when brunch should be ready.

In the West the battle started well, many of the invaders being caught by suprise as to the force mustered against them. To the North things were looking bleak though. It was a clouded morning, having rained the night before. Muddy fields slowed the Chariots, and there was no infantry support.

"Tis magnificent!" exclaimed the General, savouring a pastry that had captured his attention. "A brilliant tactic to send the icing to flank the jelly that way good Chef! I taste a decoration in this for you." and with a wink the General stepped up onto the Chariot to recon what else the kitchen might have in store to assault his gullet with.

The other occupant of the Chariot had much different concerns. Down below the second line had broke on the wall of Immortals, and Chariots were fleeing in disarray. A rage unlike anything he had ever felt was welling up inside. Below were those who had killed his father, those who would destroy his country. His whip cracked and the horses lunged forward as he let loose a terrible cry.

At the same time the General lost his grasp on his plate, and saw his life giving (and delicious) sustenance fall onto the grass. His cry of outrage mingled with the Charioteer's. All the troops, both Chariot and Immortal, paused at the roar it was so dreadful. Like thunder it echoed through the valley. A momentary break in the clouds cast a ray of light onto the decending Chariot, and gleamed on the balding head of the General. Like a halo it shined and a shout went up from the Chariots below, thinking Stormbringer himself had decended the clouds to do battle!

The madness of the General knew no bounds as he mercilessly pummelled his chauffeur. The madness of the Charioteer was equal to the task has he disregarded his passenger's blows and continued on, though not able to make out where. What troops were left formed up as the Chariot passed, but none could match the speed and the furry with which it flew.

The Immortals had broken rank to pursue the Chariots that had been fleeing. Precision had turned to bloodlust in giving chase, and now turned into disarray. A hundred hands reached to grasp this new target racing through them, to capture this Chariot that charged when all others fled. The flank of the Immortals became their front, their chase a retreat, even though they still were pursuing their target.

The main body of Chariots fell upon the Immortals flank. What had been a rout became another.

A few days later, the General was summoned back to the heartland, where all spoke his name 'Ramses' with awe. A great post awaited him. At the garrison of Arashi they know better though, the Hero is the Charioteer. The one willing to take the greatest risk, just like his father. Only now, it's Grog on Wheels...

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 12:47
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I love it! And I think the humor prevents it from sounding too much like we're gloating over the victory, which I think is the main trap we want to avoid.

Nathan

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
Emperor
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Mar 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 13:06 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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Good work Aeson! Exciting and very funny!

What follows is my own preliminary effort. It's rather different from Aeson's - I don't know exactly what direction the team want to go in. I prefer mine (obviously, or I wouldn't have bothered writing it), but I'm more than happy to make changes or scrap it entirely if Aeson's piece better reflects the team's attitude.

Comments and suggestions needed, please.

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
Emperor
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Mar 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 13:07 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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Stormbringer looked out at the tiny flickering lights in the mountains and pulled his cloak closer to shield him from the chill night air. From atop the Great Lighthouse you could see for miles, and it was said from the heights of this second wonder of the world a man could not only survey the whole vast expanse of the oceans, but also reach out and hold them in his grasp. Stormbringer frankly doubted if that was actually true, and was still troubled by the fact that the lower parts of the Lighthouse's stonework had a distinctly 'slanted sandstone' look about them. Nevertheless, the people believed it to be true and that was half the battle. The easy half.

It was also freezing cold on top of the Lighthouse because you were exposed to the raging coastal winds, which had been howling into Stormbringer's face all night as he had stood there. The campfires of the Voxian armies far in the distance had been getting closer every day and Stormian scouts reported that the enemy were receiving regular reinforcements.

Stormbringer sighed. He hadn't wanted this war, but now that it had been thrust upon him he knew how to act. The defences to the north had been marshalled, they were brave men and well trained, but he would have felt more comfortable if they had been more numerous. Nevertheless, he knew his men were brave and strong, the defences of the city would be held - he knew it in his heart. They must be held.

He heard the footsteps of a messenger on the stairs behind him and turned to meet the new arrival.

"What news of the war?" said Strombringer

"The Senate have instructed me to request to you that you travel to the battlefields with all possible speed. Our armies have engaged in heavy fighting with the Voxians and your presence is needed to rally the troops."

Strombringer considered this and looked out from the Lighthouse once again. Oh, why could he not be in more than one place at a time! At times like this a nation needs more than one leader to marshal the troops and defend the people, but he was just one man!

"How bad were our casualties?" he said.

"No worse than we could have expected, Consul, although we have no precise figures as yet. Our wounded soldiers have been steadily returning to their cities and they report that many Voxians have been left slain on the field of battle. A large army of Immortals still remain entrenched on the Spinebreaker Mountains, though, and our Generals are wary of venturing into such terrain - it was not made for chariots."

"Truly, but that army was not our chief concern. The threat they pose to our cities can not be ignored, but we must not be downhearted. First we should dispose of those enemies that have come down from the mountains - their eagerness proves their bravery, but on the plains and deserts it is we who have the advantage."

"Before you go, Consul, the Senate also instructed me to give you this message. They told me it was for your eyes only." The messenger bowed and extended his arm to present the wax-sealed envelope.

Stormbringer took it and tore open the seal. A deeply thoughtful look spread across his face as he read the contents, and when he was finished he folder the letter up and put it safely away. This news would have to be carefully considered.

"Messenger, tell the Senate that I have noted their request and that I will ready myself to depart immediately. I have done all I can for the defences in this area and there are more immediate matters of concern elsewhere."

"At once, Consul."

Stormbringer turned to leave, but something made him stop before he reached the door.

"Did you feel that, messenger?"

"Consul?"

"I think the wind just changed direction....."

Last edited by FrustratedPoet on 26-04-2003 at 17:25

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 13:30
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At present, Vox may not know/recognize that the cultural borders they're seeing on the east coast are the borders of Hurricane. If they don't know, I'd rather not tell them. The iron is a juicy enough target without their knowing the Great Lighthouse city is in the same area. Nice work, though, FP.

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
Emperor
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Mar 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 13:36 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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Oh crap. Well that's that down the toilet then.

Thanks anyway, nathan.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 15:08
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Bah, maybe it's not needed to scrap everything, just make the reference up North, instead of West. Both are accurate enough, but North gives away nothing...

I like both stories, but obviously we have to choose.
What I liked most about FP's one is the reference to the pyramid with a light on top, I wouldn't mind telling the rest that we were unlucky there, and that we deserved a littel bit of luck

Both times, mentioning our weak defenses is key, I think. And there is no harm in telling we're waiting for our WCs to hit on the flats... I wouldn't mind telling that we used most of our fresh forces to fend of the attack. Let Vox be impatient, and attack us next turn, instead of waiting 1 more turn before our troops have healed...

One remark though, can't we talk about our chicken forces, instead of chariots? e.g. in Aeson's post, talk about the poultry keeper (don't know how to translate this right), who stole a chariot, and attacked the Voxian invaders in a desperate attempt to find honor?

DeepO

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
Emperor
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Mar 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 15:19 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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OK, I'll edit out all references to "Hurricane" and 'west', replacing them with something more ambiguous.

(I'll do it a bit later, though - going jogging now)

I thinkone major question in deciding between mine and Aeson's stories is: do we want to tell them about our GL?

They'll all figure it out next turn anyway, most likely, but I'm in favour of keeping quiet about it.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 15:39
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I don't know.. as said before by NYE, not telling people we got one would not do us good once we build Sun Tsu, but telling makes them think we're bragging. There is no good choice, just the least bad one. And yes, that probably means we have to tell them now, to avoid being called secretive again.

At least we try to do it in a non-arrogant way, which is nowhere near obvious.

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 15:43
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Re: GF's poisoned tea comment: after publishing our turn report (which we have to hurry with, BTW), we could quote GF, answering:
"well, you asked us to smack him in the head, we tried to accomodate you. We can't do anything good, can we?"

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 26-04-2003 15:50
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from the Vox war report thread:
quote:
Originally posted by BigFree
I hope everyone here realizes that in MP play and PBEM's that war weariness doesn't happen. Republic doesn't sufffer the same as in a SP game; same goes for a Democracy.

Shouldn't we answer that although we're not certain what is happening, there can be positive WW effects? We are strat forum guys after all, this would only be fair to the rest of the teams...

DeepO

 
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