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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:27
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My understanding is that there are several hunderd suspected sites, and by last weekend they had only searched 90 of them. I'm giving the US the time it needs to make its case. They should, however, have found something by now, given how much proof they claimed to have had.
The scary scenario is that the US was correct in its assessment, but because it is searching so half-assedly, that the wepaons actually will find there way into the hands of terrorists. After all, the borders are effectively open right now, and everything else in the country has been looted, so why not WMDs.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:27
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They may have only searched 90, but those were the "90" that were 'sure' things. The longer things go, the less likely they are to find anything, not higher, in my view
More importantly, many of the highest members of the programs are in our custody. I mean, who the hell was hiding these things, in this scenerio? Some tribal sheik Saddam decided to give 2000 liter of anthrax to to hide real good? Where could 20 SCUDS (which supposedly the Iraqis had all this time) be hidden?
We may find something here or there, but by now I greatly doubt that the level of wepons claimed before the war will be found, and as such, I would, as i said, really like an investigation into how these numbers came to be.
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Joseph
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Ca. USA
Feb 2000
time: 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Dont try to argue Che...some people don't care if they are lied to , as long as they like the liar.
At this point, even if I am still giving the US some more time, think that in the end, nowhere near the amounts that US and Uk said the Iraqis had in terms of weapons and stuff will be found. I personally then would like to see a investigation to be done to find out just how the US and UK and a lot of other people in general then came up with all the number they did (like 10,000 liters of anthrax, or 700+ mustard gas shells) and the claims they made (UAV's that could spread gas, mobile bio-weapons labs, 20 SCUDS). I don;t think the US and Uk intelligence agencies were just out to lie, but somewhere along the line it seem to me a claim was made and no one ever tried to investigate its truth. That is not the way to run intelligence agencies. |
Just so you will know, I never did care a lot about the WMD. What I did care about was Saddam, and I wanted him gone, no matter what. If they do fine some WMD, that would great.
Now the UN inspectors said he had some of this stuff when they were kick out in 98, so were is it? I would walk every squard inch of that country before saying we can not find anything.
He had some Scuds, what did he do with them? Do you think he gave them away? The UN inspectors did not fine anything this time that would support him destroying any WMD or Scuds. There are a lot of question there and only Saddam know what he did, and we don't have him yet, if he is still alive.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
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Serb, Humanity did not found the United Nations, the US, Britain, the USSR and China did, but mainly the US and Britain, IIRC. The first meeting was in San Francisco. The permanent HQ is in New York City.
The UN is an American ideal that has turned sour, first because Stalin, who had a veto, turned out to be an enemy. Second, because we admitted so many countries that were not or soon were not democracies.
Somewhere in the UN design process, we lost our way when we did not insist on democratic goverments be a ground rule for continued membership.
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Joseph
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Ca. USA
Feb 2000
time: 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Serb, Humanity did not found the United Nations, the US, Britain, the USSR and China did, but mainly the US and Britain, IIRC. The first meeting was in San Francisco. The permanent HQ is in New York City.
The UN is an American ideal that has turned sour, first because Stalin, who had a veto, turned out to be an enemy. Second, because we admitted so many countries that were not or soon were not democracies.
Somewhere in the UN design process, we lost our way when we did not insist on democratic goverments be a ground rule for continued membership. |
And boy did we s---- up
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
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quote:
Originally posted by conmcb25
First of all no it wouldn't because the Russians have a tendency to STAY! |
Like Yanks do not. If Yanks come somewhere, they'll stay there untill the end of times.
quote:
And who is the current dictator in the Baltic States that is gasing his own people and trying like heck to acquire weapons of mass destruction, violating numerous UN Resolutions,etc? |
It's not a problem. We can give them some chem weapons (as USA gave chem weapons to Saddam) and say that it will be ok for them to use it against some Russian rebels. It wouldn't be a problem for us to create a strong rebel movement in Baltic States. So, we can always fabricate a good reason for DOW against Baltic states, it reqires only time. So, if for example we'll support some kind of evil motherf*cker and send to him some WOMD at the beginning, and later we'll start to shout- "Look, this guy is REALLY EVIL MOTHERF*CKER!!! HE IS A THREAT TO THE WORLD PEACE!!! WE HAVE NO CHOICE, EXCEPT TO INVADE AND OCCUPY HIS COUNTRY." It will be Ok for us?
quote:
I really think you need to find a different comparison |
Ok. Turkmenistan- typical dictatorship, with evil dictator in charge. Can we invade and occupy this country to save this world from evil and to liberate Turkmen citizens whose suffer from oppression? Please?
I also could mention Kirgizstan or Tadzhicistan. Middle Asian former republics of SU aren't very democratic currently.
quote:
Im glad you dont like my current avatar. In that case Ill keep it for a while! |
As you wish. I just said that your previous avatar was much better.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
We did not support Pinochet. |
It's very funny claim, consider that it was USA who created Pinochet. Just visit a CIA site and read how those guys are proud that they overthrown Aliende and installed Pinochet instead of democratically elected president of Chile.
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Serb
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Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Serb, Humanity did not found the United Nations, the US, Britain, the USSR and China did, |
I see no France in your list. Hmmm anti-French feelings must be pretty strong in US.
Anyhow, just read this document. It's preamble to UN Charter. I see no "We Yanks&Brits determinated...". All what I see is "WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED"
UN Charter
Preamble
"WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
- to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
- to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
- to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
- to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,
AND FOR THESE ENDS
- to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and
- to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
- to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and
- to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,
HAVE RESOLVED TO COMBINE OUR EFFORTS TO ACCOMPLISH THESE AIMS
Accordingly, our respective Governments, through representatives assembled in the city of San Francisco, who have exhibited their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed to the present Charter of the United Nations and do hereby establish an international organization to be known as the United Nations. "
quote:
but mainly the US and Britain, IIRC.
The UN is an American ideal that has turned sour, first because Stalin, who had a veto, turned out to be an enemy. Second, because we admitted so many countries that were not or soon were not democracies.Somewhere in the UN design process, we lost our way when we did not insist on democratic goverments be a ground rule for continued membership. |
I'm afraid we have different views about foundation of UN and about role UN.
1) I don't think it was mainly the US and Britain who created UN. UN was created by Allies after victory in WW2,BY ALL allies including Soviet Union.
2) I don't think that "The UN is an American ideal", because Soviet Union played active role in creation of UN.
3) I don't think that somewhere in the UN design process, you lost your way when you did not insist on democratic goverments be a ground rule for continued membership. Because Soviet Union was one of the founding fathers of UN and it would never allowed this.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:27
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According to DebKa File, these documents are among a large cache of documents seized from the Iraqi secret service. Security information gleaned from these documents has been forwarded to allied countries when the information concerned them. Additionally, documents that provide information considered politically useful to Tony Blair was quickly cleared and apparantly leaked, these articles being the result. According to DebKa file there is a treasure trove of damning information against Chirac, some of which has been leaked, the vast majority is being held back. Here's the link.
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=484
IMO DebKa file is an interesting source for information, but it is not 100% reliable. DebKa also asserts that some of Iraqs WMD were smuggled out of the country to Syria, and later Lebanon where they were hidden in the Bekaa valley. I heard this rumor even before the war, though it is obviously going to be very difficult to prove one way or the other. Here is a link to that story:
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=482
" Now, our intelligence sources can disclose exclusively that the relocation of Iraq’s WMD systems took place between January 10 and March 10 and was completed just 10 days before the US-led offensive was launched against Iraq. The banned arsenal, hauled in giant tankers from Iraq to Syria and from there to the Bekaa Valley under Syrian special forces and military intelligence escort, was discharged into pits 6-8 meters across and 25-35 meters deep dug by Syrian army engineers. They were sealed and planted over with new seedlings. Nonetheless, their location is known and detectable with the right instruments. Our sources have learned that Syria was paid about $35 million to make Saddam Hussein’s forbidden weapons disappear.
Before US secretary of state Colin Powell arrived in Damascus on Saturday, May 3, the Syrians made the placatory gesture to Washington of speeding and upgrading the handover of Iraqi fugitives from the Saddam regime sheltering in Syria
DEBKA-Net-Weekly has learned from its most exclusive sources that on Monday, April 28, Dr. RihabTaha, a microbiologist known as Dr. Germ, was turned over to the Americans in Iraq. She had directed Iraq’s biological weapons program. Also turned over was Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash, who headed Iraq’s anthrax project. No announcement was made of their capture. However, the surrender 24 hours later of Taha’s husband, General Amir Muhammed Rasheed, director of Iraq’s missile development program and best known by his nickname “The Missile Man”, was announced.
The United States is therefore fully apprised of the whereabouts of Saddam Hussein’s arsenal of unconventional weapons and has taken custody of the scientists who developed them.
But DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s sources say Washington was nevertheless far from placated and Powell’s meeting with the Syrian president Saturday was a confrontation. The secretary of state laid down the following demands:
1. A map with the coordinates of the pits holding Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.
2. Surrender of Saddam’s most senior insiders who fled to Aleppo and Latakiya. After DEBKAfile blew the whistle on April 3, the group staying at the Cote D’Azur De Cham Resort in Latakia was whisked away leaving their families comfortably ensconced there.
3. Handover of the two senior Al Qaeda members now in Damascus. DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s military and intelligence sources say their names and whereabouts were uncovered by US intelligence units in Iraq.
4. An explanation of Syrian motives in allowing two British terrorists, Assif Hanif, who blew himself up in Tel Aviv on April 30, and Omar Khan Sharif, who ran away, to transit Damascus en route to Israel. (One of the duo spent four months of preparation in the Syrian capital with the Hamas operations officer and associate of Hizballah Imad al-Alami, as reported exclusively by DEBKAfile.)
5. An immediate stop to the military-terrorist activities of the Lebanese Hizballah and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas in Syria and Lebanon. Failure to do so, Powell explained, will result in a painful tightening of economic pressure on Syria, after the loss of $1b in oil revenues from Baghdad. "
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05-05-2003 09:08
When did your country last value human rights? 
So, a few hundred civilians dying at the hands of stray boms is as bad as 6 million jews being put in camps for the sole purpose of gasing them to death is the same thing, is it? It's no wonder the Serbian army used snipers against children 
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