30-04-2003 03:14									#1
	The Hamas answer to Abu Mazen's New Goverment Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Explosion in a coffee shop in Tel Aviv 5 minutes ago.

Edit : Herbert Samuel street.

	30-04-2003 03:19									#2
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A coffee shop near the American Embassy...

	30-04-2003 03:28									#3
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Haaretz link:

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/288343.html

I feel very bad when those terror attacks happen :'(

	30-04-2003 03:30									#4
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It is now very clear that Hamas must be destroyed, killed without honor and left rotten to the streets without proper burial.

	30-04-2003 03:37									#5
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Hamas and Islamic Jihad have always been bloodthirsty psychopaths and they will always be bloodthirsty psychopaths. There is no reasoning with them and their goal has always been to kill all Jews, kill or frighten into silence Arabs who disagree with their demented ideology of hate, and to force their vision of hatred & pan-Arab fascism onto the region. In short they are the 21st century’s version of Nazism.

It is too bad so many people in the world, and on this forum, remain apologists for these murders.

	30-04-2003 03:39									#6
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*******s.

	30-04-2003 03:42									#7
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What bothers me [b]most[/i] is that these murderers can gather so much support from the Palestinian population and the Arabs at large.
This group sure must be dismantled, but if the root causes aren't adressed, they will reborn.

	30-04-2003 03:44									#8
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I suppose some Arabs see Hamas as the lesser of 2 evils, very few I'm guessing will find them heroic.

f*cking idiots.

	30-04-2003 03:49									#9
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What gave you the impression Hamas would start behaving any differently?

	30-04-2003 04:15									#10
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Why can't a highly organized society like the Germans step in and solve this Hamas problem once and for all?



I'm sure if you give them a good old fashioned taste of Social Democracy and all the red tape and bureaucracy that goes along with it you'd have them surrendering in no time.

I bet you all though I meant something else, didn't you?

	30-04-2003 04:16									#11
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It looks like they almost blew up the Guinness sign, too. A sure mark of evil.

	30-04-2003 04:18									#12
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Judging by the turn out at all the pro-Hamas rallies which Arafat has been allowing to occur (and even promoting) in the Palestinian territories as well as the ones Assad has been whole sale financing in Syria & Lebennon the average Arab finds these facist murders to be the best thing since sliced bread.

Hezbollah is another which should be destroyed along with all the countries (Syria, Lebennon, Iran), & Saudi Arabia) which support them and provide them with bases.

	30-04-2003 04:19									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X I'm sure if you give them a good old fashioned taste of Social Democracy and all the red tape and bureaucracy that goes along with it you'd have them surrendering in no time.

The Hamas hardcores : obviously not.
The regular Arabs who have less misery that is channeled by the Hamas to get support : most probably, although misery is far from being the only reason.

	30-04-2003 04:22									#14
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An educational & religious system which promotes, idealizes, and reinforces hatred, xenopobia, and mindless adherience to the current military dictatorship goes a long why to explaining the Arab world's major problems.

Just like in Germany & Japan in the 1930s-1940s; many of todays Arab countries' state owned schools teach their students to hate everyone who is not like them, who speaks a different langauge or who has a different religion. Until this is changed there will continue to be the problem of terrorism in ever increasing levels.

Last edited by Oerdin on 30-04-2003 at 04:28

	30-04-2003 04:27									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Demerzel I suppose some Arabs see Hamas as the lesser of 2 evils, very few I'm guessing will find them heroic. f*cking idiots.

You'll find that with any group. I'm sure that there were some white Americans who supported Timothy McVeigh

	30-04-2003 04:29									#16
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Absolutely Oerdin. You hit the nail on the most important immediate reasons.
Misery is a secondary immediate reason, but not the most important one in this situation.

But the long-term reason for hate is that Arabs feel cheated and humiliated, and feel they have to fight to put an end to this humiliation.

	30-04-2003 04:31									#17
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quote: What bothers me [b]most[/i] is that these murderers can gather so much support from the Palestinian population and the Arabs at large.

Actually the main "problem" is that 60% of Hamas activity is charity. That is how it gains support and people's trust.

	30-04-2003 04:32									#18
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Terrorist Attack on Tel-Aviv

Suicide bomber detonated himself next to a pub in Tel-Aviv walkway, adjacent to the US embassy.

Police Figures: 35 injured 4 dead + bomber.

	30-04-2003 04:34									#19
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When my relatives were in a building right across from an ETA bomb that went off in Spain, I spare no sympathy for murderers anywhere no matter their situation.. Kill all of the terrorists that are responsible for this.

	30-04-2003 04:43									#20
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I'm beginning to use my Avatar and Signature for news updates.

	30-04-2003 04:44									#21
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I think the most important thing is to not let this stop or slowen the development of the Abu Mazen's Goverment. The quicker the Israel and Palestine resolve their differences and the quicker they set up the Palestinian state, the faster the crack down on groups like hamas can be stopped.

	30-04-2003 04:51									#22
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quote: Originally posted by I Am Jeff I think the most important thing is to not let this stop or slowen the development of the Abu Mazen's Goverment. The quicker the Israel and Palestine resolve their differences and the quicker they set up the Palestinian state, the faster the crack down on groups like hamas can be stopped.

	30-04-2003 04:55									#23
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The creation of a Palestinian government will be a major step, but, it will only be a step forward if it is run by people who do not support terrorism. Unfortunately, Arafat is a dyed in the wool terrorist and he will never be anything else.

	30-04-2003 04:55									#24
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I Am Jeff - Please understand that we are suspicious and weary of this.

In 1993, we thought that the faster we give the Palestinians self rule, and give them weapons, the faster their police force will reign in the terror.

However, instead, they used the freedom from IDF patrols to create bases of terror, and palestinian police either ignored or actively participated in terrorism since.

We have already tried advancing the political process, hoping the terror would go away. It had backfired, creating far more terror than ever.

That is why, now we see it as the palestinian's turn to make unmatched concessions. Now they have to begin cracking down on terror, and expect that when it is down to reasonable levels, we will resume negociations.

It's also a matter of trust. We have intelligence evidence, interrogation reports, and actual admittal in papers, that the PA executive bodies and police forces have either knowingly turned a blind eye, funded, supported, incited and even participated in terrorist activities.

	30-04-2003 04:57									#25
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Furthermore, Arafat is still the President of the PA and also, lest you forget the chiarman of PLO - representing Palestinians abroad as well. He still holds significant powers.

Furthermore, he demanded, and got, to put 14 of the ministers he liked in the government. Those are the same people that have been there up until now, who are close to Arafat and will be a majority in the 24 seat government.

How's that for "reform"?

	30-04-2003 05:01									#26
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The best possible senerio I can see coming out of this is for Abu Mazen to work his way into the government and then for Arafat to die. Then maybe their will be a Palestinian leader who really wants to turn Palestine into a modern democracy instead of a privite kleptocracy & militant camp like Arafat has done.

	30-04-2003 06:20									#27
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NEWS UPDATE:

3 dead Israelis
1 bomber dead
59 injured - 1 in critical condition, 8 in with severe injuries.

Israeli Police is now in hot search for a car that reportedly left the bomber near the cafe, and sped away fromt he spot. I imagine huge areas of the territorial borders will be closed.


Abu Mazen has reportedly condemned the event.

	30-04-2003 06:25									#28
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**** !
Many more injuries than before I hope they'll heal

	30-04-2003 06:44									#29
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Injuries can refer to pretty terrible mutilation. The way they make them sound in the media you'd think people just got the wind knocked out of them.

	30-04-2003 06:46									#30
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Spiff, a good portion of those are probably shock injuries. About ~20 are lightly injured (this can also include things which emergency medicine consider light: burnt skin, scars, broken limbs that are easy to fix).

That means around 30 physical injuries, and 30 people lightly scarred or shocked.

My numbers are based on numbers heard on TV, and may not be updated or exact. It often so happens that medium and light injuries get to the hospital later, and thus are added to the list, because they are picked up by private citizens rather than ambulances.

Another good thing: several of the critical conditions lessened to severe.

Furthermore there's 1 dead less than I thought (previously was reported that 4 deaths do not include suicide bomber).