01-05-2003 11:05									#1
	A challenge to old, jaded players. Beat WW2 Scenario as turks, french and spanish. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Can it be done?

I don't know.

In the original World War 2 scenario, can humans playing Spain, France, Turkey, and possibly the Neutrals defeat the Allies, Germans and Russians?

Can they at least stir up a little trouble?

I think its a fun idea. Game starts tommarrow at 10 PM EST. I am France, Moker (remember him?) is Spain. We need a Turkey and possibly someone to play the neutrals. Or at least someone to stop in as the neutrals for a minute to divy up the cities to the other 3 players.

Who's with me?

	01-05-2003 11:13									#2
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i'll play man...but i dont know who...

	01-05-2003 11:25									#3
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It's been done before, but one step better. Xin, Rah and I played as The Neutrals, Spain, and Turkey and won. It was a blast. You guys should enjoy the game.

Have fun.

I love how France gets blasted on the opening turn

	01-05-2003 19:27									#4
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What difficulty did you pick?

	01-05-2003 19:39									#5
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Deity...

	01-05-2003 19:47									#6
	Re: A challenge to old, jaded players. Beat WW2 Scenario as turks, french and spanish. Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Can it be done? I don't know. In the original World War 2 scenario, can humans playing Spain, France, Turkey, and possibly the Neutrals defeat the Allies, Germans and Russians? Can they at least stir up a little trouble? I think its a fun idea. Game starts tommarrow at 10 PM EST. I am France, Moker (remember him?) is Spain. We need a Turkey and possibly someone to play the neutrals. Or at least someone to stop in as the neutrals for a minute to divy up the cities to the other 3 players. Who's with me?

hi ,


, the neutrals dont get a lot of cities , .....

to start with the germans shall always get after the dutch , thats one down , .....

what scen is it

have a nice day

	01-05-2003 19:59									#7
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Yes, that was a fun game.

Later we tried it solo as those countries, (and others did too), and it was beat from each one. In fact, there were speed contests on all the different starting positions too. Some of them were quite impressive. There was a thread about it. But I'm too lazy to find it.

RAH

	01-05-2003 20:06									#8
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Ok, it'll be a fun game then. If someone can find that thread it'd be good.

	01-05-2003 20:11									#9
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hi ,

, what was the makers name again , ...

Q , is this the scenario with the neutrals in blue color

, everyone agrees in the poll , ......

have a nice day

	01-05-2003 20:15									#10
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****, sounds like fun. If you want (a crappy player), I might be able to make it. I have beaten the scenario as the Turks after the time limit but only on king iirc.

	01-05-2003 20:22									#11
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Ok, lets go ahead with this line up.

Ozzy as the French, Moker as the Spanish, Cold as the Turks (boy its like the old Sayen tribe back again!) and hartster as the Neutrals.

10 PM Eastern, tonight. My AIM is OzzyKP, my ICQ is 47270249

	01-05-2003 20:22									#12
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It has been done solo as can be read in this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=&threadid=2712

This was all done with 2.24 where AI isnt half as hostile then in MGE.

I got my ass kicked bad when playing the turks on MGE.

Neutrals seems to be the easyest minor power, becouse of the 1000+ traderoute payoffs.

Last edited by atawa on 01-05-2003 at 20:32

	01-05-2003 20:26									#13
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quote: Originally posted by atawa It has been done as can be read in this thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=&threadid=2712 This was all done with 2.24 where AI isnt half as hostile then in MGE. I got my ass kicked bad when playing the turks on MGE. Neutrals seems to be the easyest minor power, becouse of the 1000+ traderoute payoffs.

hi ,

great thread , the save has never been downloaded

and why is "silver dragon" on my ignore list , Ming , no-one is on it , yet when viewing this thread , .....

have a nice day

	01-05-2003 20:32									#14
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Ok, lets go ahead with this line up. Ozzy as the French, Moker as the Spanish, Cold as the Turks (boy its like the old Sayen tribe back again!) and hartster as the Neutrals. 10 PM Eastern, tonight. My AIM is OzzyKP, my ICQ is 47270249

I thought you said tomorrow. I should still be able to make tonight though

	01-05-2003 20:45									#15
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I did say tommarrow, but I posted that yesterday.

	01-05-2003 20:48									#16
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* ColdWizard pulls out his industrial grade hair-splitter
technically you posted that today

* ColdWizard makes a note to be more careful about checking post times in addition to post dates

	01-05-2003 20:52									#17
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quote: Originally posted by panag and why is "silver dragon" on my ignore list , Ming , no-one is on it , yet when viewing this thread , .....

It's a bug. Sometimes when viewing older threads, (don't know the cutoff date) some people will show as on your ignore list. I looked at an old thread the other day, and it said MarkG was on my ignore list.
When I reported it, all the other mods had their laugh and called me a newb.

RAH

	01-05-2003 21:13									#18
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quote: Originally posted by ColdWizard * ColdWizard pulls out his industrial grade hair-splitter technically you posted that today * ColdWizard makes a note to be more careful about checking post times in addition to post dates

Well post times and dates are in GMT, I think I made my post yesterday in EST. And even if it happened to be after midnight when I posted, it was still before I went to sleep so it was yesterday, damnit!

	01-05-2003 21:32									#19
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I'm reading through the forum about people beating the game with the neutrals, and crap, I don't know how that is possible. I just gave it a go and i got my arse handed to me. Someone mentioned the AI in MGE is more aggresive than in the version they were playing?

I couldn't stay at peace with anyone. The allies canceled our alliance as soon as I had a ceasefire with the Axis. The Axis never agreed to another ceasefire after they took Bucharest.

My ships (gallons only...) all got sunk before I could make any shipments to Britain. Axis bombers hammered Stokholm, I quit before they killed my last defense and destroyed the city.

The French offered me an alliance to go to war with the Russians, I figured it would be nice to have an ally so I went for it. Next turn the French canceled the alliance because I didn't give them 1000 gold. Of course the Russians didn't cancel the war and Tehran started being bombed.

I think we can do it with all 4 of us. But I don't see how people won with just the neutrals.

	01-05-2003 23:37									#20
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP I'm reading through the forum about people beating the game with the neutrals, and crap, I don't know how that is possible. I just gave it a go and i got my arse handed to me. Someone mentioned the AI in MGE is more aggresive than in the version they were playing? I couldn't stay at peace with anyone. The allies canceled our alliance as soon as I had a ceasefire with the Axis. The Axis never agreed to another ceasefire after they took Bucharest. My ships (gallons only...) all got sunk before I could make any shipments to Britain. Axis bombers hammered Stokholm, I quit before they killed my last defense and destroyed the city. The French offered me an alliance to go to war with the Russians, I figured it would be nice to have an ally so I went for it. Next turn the French canceled the alliance because I didn't give them 1000 gold. Of course the Russians didn't cancel the war and Tehran started being bombed. I think we can do it with all 4 of us. But I don't see how people won with just the neutrals.

hi ,

, those neutrals started with almost next to nothing , .....

can anyone ( Ming ) give some history regarding as how they did it , ...

have a nice day

	01-05-2003 23:55									#21
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Playing just the neutrals is impossible.

Playing in MP format with two allies (Spain and Turkey) it is very possible. Not everybody jumps just on you then

Yeah, you get pounded at first... but Spain can get on a roll and give Turkey and the Neutrals some breathing room to start growing again after the initial beating.

I know it can be done, since we did do it. Russia was the last of the powers left, and we had fun just going nuts on them down the stretch

	02-05-2003 01:07									#22
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People did win as just neutrals.

Check out this forum:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...=&threadid=2712

There must be a huge difference between MGE and whatever version they were using, cause I can't do it. But it seems plenty of those players did.

	02-05-2003 01:17									#23
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quote: (ww2 scenario, deity level, no caravan rehoming) 1) Smaller civs: French: dec 1951 (La Fayette) Neutrals: jun 1956 (cliff) Spaniards: aug 1951 (La Fayette) Turks: dec 1951 (cliff) 2) Bigger civs: Allies: apr 1944 (La Fayette) Axis: aug 1943 (Caesar the Great) Russians: jun 1944 (La Fayette)

Here are the records posted in that forum for quickest time to take all the objectives with each of the above civs.

quote: Oct. 1958 with the neutruals. I got the trade going early to the allies, got all of scandinavia very quickly, got robotics and mobile warfare from the brits and also from science bonuses from the caravans. (Tehran kept supplying oil. ) Then I systematically took russia from the north down. Meanwhile, I bought a huge number of tanks and howies in Tehran and some other little cities in the middle east. The russians had many of their southern cities defended with only one rifleman, because the units were all idiotically murdering themselves against my impregnable cities. . After I took russia, I started pouring in the trade to england. (I founded a couple of airport cities in Ireland.) I could buy howies and tanks by the dozen every turn. Later the english sneak attacked me, so I used the airport cities to bring in howies, and I took england in a few turns. Then I attacked the Nazis from all sides, snapping up the turks spanish and french while I was at it. Last city conquered in 1958.

Above is Jaguar Warrior's account of how he beat the game by '58 with the neutrals. As you can see from the chart above, '58 isn't even the record anymore.

	02-05-2003 01:59									#24
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It couldn't have been MGE... The Neutrals get blasted away with an aggressive AI.

But even if it's the regular version... THAT'S DAMN IMPRESSIVE!

	02-05-2003 04:59									#25
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Ozzy:

I've beaten the game with the Neutrals but not on MGE.

I currently have a game running on MGE as the Neutrals.

Here's a few tips to get you started.


1. You need to modernise as quickly as possible.

On the first turn, meet with the French, and trade Guerrilla warfare for Mass Production. Mass Production is not owned by the Turks or Spanish.

Meet with the Spanish, and trade techs for as long as they will let you. If they go to worshipful, sign an alliance and ask for another tech.

Meet with the Turks, and repeat. By now, you should be more advanced than the Russians!

You will still be way behind the Allies and Axis.


2. Hold Belgrade from the Axis.

After the Nazis sack Amsterdam, you will get three veteran partisans. Sign a ceasefire with the Germans, and slowly hike these partisans to Belgrade.

Rush a barracks in Belgrade, you will be upgrading all your Riflemen to two Vet Alpine Troops. You will need several fighters as well to protect your Alpine Troops from Bombers.

Sell unneeded city improvements in Belgrade, including city walls in Stockholm and Tehran to finance upgrades in Belgrade.

The Nazis will pummel Belgrade with their entire army of tanks, and bombers, but will be unable to take the city once you have the Alpine Troops and Partisans fortified behind city walls.

Why do you need Belgrade? It helps to rob the Nazis blind as you steal techs from nearby Bucharest, Budapest and Vienna.

When you get Rocketry, wait for the Allies to develop Robotics, and then meet with them to trade techs. This should give you an excellent start.

Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 02-05-2003 at 05:07

	02-05-2003 06:49									#26
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i'm going to be late, maybe half hour or so

	02-05-2003 19:07									#27
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From DrFell's acount you should be able to trade with the Allies for 1000+ gold.

Juist build airports in Tehran and Stockholm and shipchain them, this should give you enough money and techs.

All this was done on 2.42 though when the AI you.

	02-05-2003 20:48									#28
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quote: Originally posted by atawa All this was done on 2.42 though when the AI you.

That's why I look forward to more info from obiwan18's game... I didn't think it was possible with MGE.

You don't really get much time to survive

	02-05-2003 22:20									#29
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hi ,

since i could not sleep i removed the dust from a civ II copy , .....

i am not sure its mge , the box is green with a dragon of some sort on it , it says " the ultimate civilization II - classic collection "

i have tried over and over again , .... the germans dont want to wait for the rebels to reach belgrade , .... they simply declare war again , ....

have a nice day

	04-05-2003 23:36									#30
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I want to play as the russians