02-05-2003 20:22									#62
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Intelligence can mean so much. Bush is hardly a Bismarck, able to do pretty much everything himself. However, he might for example have an ability to pick people that will give him good advice that at the same time is close to what he would have wanted if he had the time or ability to come to his own conclutions. As a world leader nowadays this ability is essential. History is full of smart people picking stupid people for their staff.

Now, I don't say that he has this ability. But just because he might have problems finding a country on a map before he starts a war against it doesn't mean he lack the other ability. I might win a game of Trivial Pursuit against him but that doesn't make me a better president.

And no, I don't like him and he hardly seem intelligent to me. But, how knows if the first doesn't affect the later. This is something that probably works the other way. It's not that strange to think that people that you agree with are smarter than people you disagree with.

	02-05-2003 20:24									#63
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Personnaly, I don't think Bush is stupid at all...

The problem is, he's more ignorant that my 11 years old little brother. He's probably the most ignorant leader USA ever had, by far. But he's intelligent.

	02-05-2003 20:26									#64
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Which is more than can be said for you.

	02-05-2003 20:31									#65
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But then again you're about the age of his brother.

	02-05-2003 20:32									#66
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quote: The problem is, he's more ignorant that my 11 years old little brother. He's probably the most ignorant leader USA ever had, by far. But he's intelligent.

Like your country? The thing about Chirac is he is far more arrogant than Bush.. and far more stupid.

Clear Skies:

THat is the kind of response I expected from a liberal. Excuses, excuses, excuses. The fact remains many things Bush has said could be interpreted two ways. The book twisted things to suit its own means.

	02-05-2003 20:43									#67
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As for picking advisors he has the wisdom and experience of his father and father's friends to fall back on, which shows in his choices. Although, I think he obviously shows some independant thought, since he seems to swing further stupid, err... right then his father would have.

	02-05-2003 20:48									#68
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Gsmoove, great way to insult the right-wing. Obviously you have nothing.

	02-05-2003 20:49									#69
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But I corrected myself

	02-05-2003 20:51									#70
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It's fantastic how some people think that calling another person stupid without even explaining why is a good way to win an argument.

Last edited by Kropotkin on 02-05-2003 at 21:00

	02-05-2003 21:26									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Bush scored a 1206, Gore scored a 1355. Both Gore's verbal and math were higher than Bush's: A 1200 score is hardly Yale material, however.

What is Yale material?

	02-05-2003 21:32									#72
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all schools post a range of SAT score for thier incoming classes. You would be hard-pressed to find many people with 1200 SAT's getting into Yale, speically on academics lone. If you have a 1200 SAT and go tinto Yale, then something else must have been present to get you in ahead of endless hordes with higher scores that don;t get in.

As for Bush's intelligence: I go by the multiple intelligence's arguemn that came up in the How smart are you thread. bush is great with people, and probably is also very athletic. He is not an intellectual, nor is book-learning one of his strenghts. If Book-smarts and quick wits are what you call intelligence, then no, Bush is not highly intelligent. If you accept there are more than one way to be smart, then you can say Bush is smart..of course, there are very few openly stupid people, and you can;t be elected prez. if you were one of them.

	02-05-2003 21:34									#73
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quote: Bush is 'highly intelligent'

So was Lassie, but you wouldn't make her president would you?

	02-05-2003 21:42									#74
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Yale has median 730 math and 720 verbal.

Yeah, it does look like neither Gore nor Bush are Yale material.

	02-05-2003 21:43									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Like your country? The thing about Chirac is he is far more arrogant than Bush.. and far more stupid.

Absolutely. As always, we are #1

	02-05-2003 21:43									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison So was Lassie, but you wouldn't make her president would you?

Percy (a collie/Alsatian cross) ran against Katherine Harris for Congress. Guess you could say it was a case of dog beat dog.

	02-05-2003 21:44									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Yale has median 730 math and 720 verbal. .

That was after they rescaled the SAT tests to make them easier

	02-05-2003 21:45									#78
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But as Yalies would say, they both clearly qualify for Harvard.

	02-05-2003 21:45									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Of course Tony Blair would say that W is intelligent. What else could he have said, W is an idiot? What would that make Blair?

A smart idiot?

	02-05-2003 21:46									#80
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First; who cares what he got on his SATs? Standardized test don't tell you anything... Anyway, I know a guy who aced that stupid test and is now in prison... oh, yeah, before that he worked a Egghead... real genius.

Second; Bush may not have gotten in to school on merit, and private schools generally pass you as long as your bill is paid, but that is how much of society is. I really don't think that a complete dunderhead would of gotten elected to the level of public office that he did based souly on who his dad is.

Third; How smart can one be to one want to work in public service... as a politician for that matter. Heck, just the fact that he is a politician lowers his IQ IMO.

Fourth; He's from Texas... I don't what that really means.

Fifth; He has a really high approval rating so he must be doing something right. I don't whatever that is that he is doing right is a Forrest Gump accident.

Sixth; Ppl always insult the president for something, no matter who the president is.

Seventh; He's smarter than G. Davis, that *****.

I like the guy, I don't know anything about his intelligence, yet his success at being president says a lot to me... Yet, he's no Jimmy Carter

	02-05-2003 21:47									#81
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Yeah, but even before they re-scaled them, 1200 was not Yale material by itself. Legacy surely had a huge impact in Bush's admission, specially since he came form an upper-crust Conneticutt family.

	02-05-2003 21:52									#82
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There was a recent story in a local paper about a kid on Long Island who graduated top of his class from highschool with a perfect 1600 on the SATs, a near-perfect grade point average, and extra-curricular activities out the wazoo (sports teams, president of the student body, school newspaper, etc.).

He was rejected by: Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Columbia and Stanford. He's now going to Duke, but the explanation given in the article shows how the Ivy League schools work. Despite is academic excellence, he was competing against tons of people who have the same kinds of records. But he had no family members who had gone to these schools, nor was he a minority, nor was he from an impoverished background.

Bush and Gore got into their respective schools because of the family legacy, this is pretty indisputable. Bush's SAT scores and high school grades were abysmal compared to his peers at Yale. But his Daddy was head of the CIA and was a famous, wealthy graduate of the school. In the end, it's about legacy.

	02-05-2003 22:02									#83
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There is a sort of affermative action for locations going on as well. The Northeast produces immense amounts of students with glowing academics, and if only academics counted, most bigs schools in the East would be made up almost completely of people from the Northeast (lots of gifted students from elsewhere try to stick close to home). A student from Cali. with a 1450 SAT and a good set of "others", top of his/her class would be far more likely to get into Yale, Harvard, Princeton, so forth, than a person with 1600 and everything that kid you mentioned had, if s/he happened to be competing with half a dozen kids in the same school with the same credentials.

	02-05-2003 22:13									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Yale has median 730 math and 720 verbal. Yeah, it does look like neither Gore nor Bush are Yale material.

Test standards have changed since then. Add about 80 to 150 points to pre 1980s SAT scores to get today"s equivilant, also real results, even absent rescaling, are, I believe, up today, as well many top schools being more selective. I recall being activiely recruited (on cold calls where I had not contacted them) and offered scholarships from top schools around the country just on account of my SAT scores (a bit higher than Gore's) which I had blanket released to any school interested.

	02-05-2003 22:15									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Like your country? The thing about Chirac is he is far more arrogant than Bush.. and far more stupid.

Coming from you Fez, I guess it's a pretty nice compliment for Chirac. I don't even know if he deserves such an honor

	02-05-2003 22:25									#86
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Anybody know a good site for converting old/new scores? And what if you were at the top on the old test?

	02-05-2003 22:28									#87
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quote: Originally posted by GP Anybody know a good site for converting old/new scores? And what if you were at the top on the old test?

A 1600 is a 1600, old or new.

I took my last SAT the year before they changed the test and got a 1370, I think. My dad told me that under the new scores it would be something like a 1480, I think.

	02-05-2003 22:28									#88
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Found one: http://www.greenes.com/html/convert.htm

The differentiation of top scores has dissapeared. (about a 90 point bonus added in new scoring method.)

	02-05-2003 22:32									#89
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Boris can be mistaken?
Let me write this date down.

	02-05-2003 22:34									#90
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This whole "GWBush is a dummy" thing reminds me of the buzz and "common knowledge" that was kicking around 15 years ago that Bush Sr. was a "wimp". Dozens of pundits bemoaned the so-called "wimp factor" that supposedly plagued the elder Bush. Of course we now know the fate of that ex-Navy pilot shot down in the Pacific - hardly the story of a wimp.

Personally, none of us know GWB well enough to judge his intelligence. He isn't the best public speaker, and he has that deer-in-the-headlights look when he talks on TV. I disagree with many of his policies but that hardly makes him an imbecile.