04-05-2003 21:09									#151
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even being out of context, anyone can understand what Bush was saying in those quotes... even if he didn't say things clearly, anyone with a brain would be able to realize what he was trying to say.

and no one claims that Bush is a great orator... even if he never made mistakes, his slow-speaking southern drawl would bring him down and people would be saying his slow-speech makes him sound stupid.

	04-05-2003 21:12									#152
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The point being that Gore was a somewhat smart man, but a bad orator. Bush is a bad orator and a dumbass.

	04-05-2003 21:59									#153
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand So far he's allowed military leaders to make miltary decisions. Made for well-run operations that were quickly over.

That's because deserters shouldn't be allowed to make decisions in the military.

GWB, AWOL 1974-1976.

Let's face it, before being appointed President, the biggest thing this man had done in his life was stop being a coke-addict alcoholic. He only succeeded in school because he was helped. He only succeeded in businesses that were handed to him. He only served a few years as governor of Texas, which, we find out, is largely a ceremonily position, i.e., like being Vice-Prez of the US. He was only able to "win" the election because of massive fraud on his brother's part. If it weren't for 9/11 he'd be a wholey unremarkable President and likely facing a hostile Congress (since the Democrats wouldn't have ahd national security to hang themselves with).

The worship of the Usurper is as mystifying to me as is the absolute hatred the right had for Clinton. I just don't get it.

	04-05-2003 22:01									#154
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I missed some drills too. **** on me.

	04-05-2003 22:06									#155
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quote: Originally posted by GP I missed some drills too. **** on me.

Eighteen months in a row?

	05-05-2003 03:41									#156
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quote: He was only able to "win" the election because of massive fraud on his brother's part.

Which balanced out the massive fraud on Gore's part in places like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri etc.

	05-05-2003 03:56									#157
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The worship of the Usurper is as mystifying to me as is the absolute hatred the right had for Clinton. I just don't get it.

I agree that GWB is a late bloomer. But Che, so was Clinton in a way. Clinton came to office being anti-military. But he successfully used it a number of times to advance human rights and bring law and order out of chaos. On the whole, Clinton's presidency was a success - but only because he "grew up."

Clinton got the ire of the right because of his higly partisan attacks on them. He and Gore would say, for example, that so and so Republican proposal would kill x number of kids. They did this over and over again during his entire presidency. Now can you understand why they may have had it in for him?

As well, Clinton's opening salvo with his wife and that secret commission to install universal health care. They they trumped up charges against the travel office. They they were found with FBI information on Republicans. They they hid the billing records under subpoena. Then we learn about selling the Lincoln bedroom and the Chinese campaign contributions. Next he lies at the Paula Jones depo and is impeached.

The man had one hell of a record in the White House even while the economy was healthy and he did well in foreign affairs.

	05-05-2003 04:20									#158
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I shudder at the thought of Gore being in charge from 9/11 forward.

	05-05-2003 04:35									#159
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I shudder at the thought of Gore being in charge from 9/11 forward.

Let's examine a Gore presidency:

1) We sign Kyoto and place a $5/gallon tax on gasoline.
2) We raise, not lower, taxes. The surpluses rise and the deficit shrinks.
3) We junk Missile Defense and keep Russia at bay as the Euros wanted.
4) We respond to OBL and 9/11 with 75 cruise missiles and tough talk.
5) We lift sanctions and make nice-nice with Saddam, even as his support for al Qa'ida deepens. Saddam gives OBL some anthrax.
6) Washington is crippled with a massive anthrax attack. Thousands die and the city is rendered unihabitable.
7) Gore fires 76 cruise missles and issues more tough talk.
8) New York, Chicago and LA go next.
9) Gore escallates. He fires 78 cruise missiles this time.

And so on and so on.

	05-05-2003 04:48									#160
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I think the fact that people keep having to jump to his defence and say he's intelligent is the best evidence that he isn't the sharpest pencil in the box.

And we have plenty of opportunities to judge for ourselves through what he says and does publicly.

The fact he went to elite schools only indicates privileged background not intelligence.

	05-05-2003 05:10									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Let's examine a Gore presidency: 1) We sign Kyoto and place a $5/gallon tax on gasoline. 2) We raise, not lower, taxes. The surpluses rise and the deficit shrinks. 3) We junk Missile Defense and keep Russia at bay as the Euros wanted. 4) We respond to OBL and 9/11 with 75 cruise missiles and tough talk. 5) We lift sanctions and make nice-nice with Saddam, even as his support for al Qa'ida deepens. Saddam gives OBL some anthrax. 6) Washington is crippled with a massive anthrax attack. Thousands die and the city is rendered unihabitable. 7) Gore fires 76 cruise missles and issues more tough talk. 8) New York, Chicago and LA go next. 9) Gore escallates. He fires 78 cruise missiles this time. And so on and so on.

Oh my god Ned, I thought you were smarter than to write down this utter and complete nonsense...

"4) We respond to OBL and 9/11 with 75 cruise missiles and tough talk. Eh, cruise missiles, and who are we trying to kill here?


Btw don't trust someone who talks of his enemies as the "evildoers". Okay, he may not be an oratory talent, but any 12 year old kid can do better than talk about the evildoers that threaten our valiant country so we must kill them before they kill us!

The fact is that behind all of his actions there doesn't seem to be much good thinking as to why.. he just follows his (unfortunately extremely right) emotions... I at least don't ever notice a deeper thought in his speeches or statements.. they're all quite simple and narrow minded to me, but that's just my opinion of course..

	05-05-2003 05:51									#162
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If Gore was president we would of gotten the whole world on our side in Iraq, even though it would of taken an extra year; Gore wouldn't screw the UN because of Chirac, Gore would of be a master diplomat and humilliate Chirac by showing his dealings with Saddam, France would capitulate real quick. The Iraqis wouldn't be telling us to get out if the UN was with us. We would also have an independent Kurdistan, Gore wouldn't give a crap about Turkey's worthless complaints.

Bush is a cowboy hick, Gore is a master diplomat.

	05-05-2003 06:25									#163
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I tend to agree with Odin's analysis. There would have been a lot less colateral damage. I think what annoyed people so much was the needless damage, mainly due to lack of international experience.

	05-05-2003 06:27									#164
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Could've would've should've

	05-05-2003 06:58									#165
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yes but we see the international fallout of the approach that was taken.

	05-05-2003 08:04									#166
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Seeing as how I haven't met the guy, it's hard to say whether or not Shrub is stupid.

There are indications, however, that he's amazingly ignorant considering his position. The whole "are there blacks in Brazil?" comment, for instance.

	05-05-2003 08:12									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Ned 1) We sign Kyoto and place a $5/gallon tax on gasoline. 2) We raise, not lower, taxes. The surpluses rise and the deficit shrinks. 3) We junk Missile Defense and keep Russia at bay as the Euros wanted. 4) We respond to OBL and 9/11 with 75 cruise missiles and tough talk. 5) We lift sanctions and make nice-nice with Saddam, even as his support for al Qa'ida deepens. Saddam gives OBL some anthrax. 6) Washington is crippled with a massive anthrax attack. Thousands die and the city is rendered unihabitable. 7) Gore fires 76 cruise missles and issues more tough talk. 8) New York, Chicago and LA go next. 9) Gore escallates. He fires 78 cruise missiles this time. And so on and so on.

This is not even revisionist history. This is what is called fiction, yes? Pretty boring as far as fiction goes.

	05-05-2003 09:38									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo There are indications, however, that he's amazingly ignorant considering his position. The whole "are there blacks in Brazil?" comment, for instance.

	05-05-2003 17:50									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Oh my god Ned, I thought you were smarter than to write down this utter and complete nonsense... "4) We respond to OBL and 9/11 with 75 cruise missiles and tough talk. Eh, cruise missiles, and who are we trying to kill here?

Clinton used 75 cruise missles on OBL the last time he struck and killed a lot of Americans. OBL blew up two embassies. In response, Clinton used cruise missles. He did the same when Saddam kicked the inspectors out. He did the same when Saddam tried to assassinate Bush I.

Why would we expect his VP to be any different from cruise missile Clinton?

Many Democrats in the initial stages after 9/11 refused to accept that we were at war. They wanted to strike back at OBL. But invading Afghanistan. NEVER! Gore would have been true to his party's pacifist roots. To even for a moment think that a Democrat would act with the balls of George Bush is laughable.

	05-05-2003 17:55									#170
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quote: Gore is a master diplomat.

let us just describe him as a ... listener type.

	05-05-2003 18:08									#171
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quote: Originally posted by Odin If Gore was president we would of gotten the whole world on our side in Iraq, even though it would of taken an extra year; Gore wouldn't screw the UN because of Chirac, Gore would of be a master diplomat and humilliate Chirac by showing his dealings with Saddam, France would capitulate real quick. The Iraqis wouldn't be telling us to get out if the UN was with us. We would also have an independent Kurdistan, Gore wouldn't give a crap about Turkey's worthless complaints. Bush is a cowboy hick, Gore is a master diplomat.

You guys forget what a Democrat is: a pacifist. What this means is that Gore would have done nothing at all about Saddam and would have only fired cruise missles at OBL, just like Clinton. Gore was highly critical of GWB's tough talk on Iraq. Remember?

	05-05-2003 18:29									#172
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Plenty of complete idiots went to Harvard and Yale (and Cambridge and Oxford....). Getting into one of these schools is no measure of intelligence but it is also no measure of stupidity (there have been a few bright ones going to these schools too).

	05-05-2003 18:54									#173
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How can you fire cruise missiles at Osama if you don't even know where he is..

	05-05-2003 19:05									#174
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Trajanus, Precisely. Clinton fired and missed in '98. He had reliable info just before he left office, but held his fire. He explained that he was reluctant to again shoot into Afghanistan unless the data were completely reliable, remembering his first experience.

Special opps may have been able to take out OBL. A guy on a hill targets OBL's tent, relays the info to a stealth fighter or two, who then drop a couple of big ones right on the tent using GPS.

The only problem with decapitation of al Qa'ida is that it does not dismantle the organization. Clinton, and Gore, were not thinking clearly. Or, perhaps they were, but were instead not willing to do what was necessary to effectively go after al Qa'ida.