02-05-2003 22:38									#91
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Boris can be mistaken? Let me write this date down.

What was I mistaken about?

	02-05-2003 22:48									#92
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As an outsider the american systems for college applicatons seems like a real jungle. A system full of inequalities and counter-inequalities. Add to that all those different merits that are used for the selection and it makes a system that isn't fair for pretty much anyone in the end.

	02-05-2003 22:50									#93
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Scoring has changed.

Never mind, let me mark this off the calendar.

I'm still steamed at myself over the "Chili" correction by you.

	02-05-2003 22:53									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin As an outsider the american systems for college applicatons seems like a real jungle. A system full of inequalities and counter-inequalities. Add to that all those different merits that are used for the selection and it makes a system that isn't fair for pretty much anyone in the end.

Yeah, but unlike in most other industrialized states, you can always get into some college or university, and have the chance to transfer around. The US does a better job at Higher education that any other industrialized state.

	02-05-2003 22:54									#95
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator This whole "GWBush is a dummy" thing reminds me of the buzz and "common knowledge" that was kicking around 15 years ago that Bush Sr. was a "wimp". Dozens of pundits bemoaned the so-called "wimp factor" that supposedly plagued the elder Bush. Of course we now know the fate of that ex-Navy pilot shot down in the Pacific - hardly the story of a wimp. Personally, none of us know GWB well enough to judge his intelligence. He isn't the best public speaker, and he has that deer-in-the-headlights look when he talks on TV. I disagree with many of his policies but that hardly makes him an imbecile.

The whole wimp thing was because Reagan called him one. Personally I think anyone who is willng to call a former head of the CIA a wimp a bit scary.

	02-05-2003 22:57									#96
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Gepap: Well that pretty much goes for Sweden as well so that doesn't impress me.

In fact I'd say it's a bit too easy to get into college or the university around here.

	02-05-2003 23:18									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola Test standards have changed since then. Add about 80 to 150 points to pre 1980s SAT scores to get today"s equivilant, also real results, even absent rescaling, are, I believe, up today, as well many top schools being more selective. I recall being activiely recruited (on cold calls where I had not contacted them) and offered scholarships from top schools around the country just on account of my SAT scores (a bit higher than Gore's) which I had blanket released to any school interested.

Really, I had the same happen to me. My score was well above Gore's and also from the same timeframe, the '60s.

	02-05-2003 23:55									#98
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Bush is a clever slacker with good instincts and guts. But perhaps it is good instincts that is the most important quality for a president.

	03-05-2003 00:12									#99
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Damn, I was wishing for more Fezzing .

Personally, I don't think Bush is an idiot at all. He isn't a great speaker, but I know many highly intelligent people who freeze up in front of people or a camera. He's a smart guy who knows what he wants and trys to go after it.

	03-05-2003 00:53									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten What school did Blair go to?

As for high school I have no idea, but he went to St. John's College, Oxford for his degree, as did Cherie IIRC (who also vastly outscored him, she is one hell of a smart cookie)

quote: Bush scored a 1206, Gore scored a 1355.

That's all it takes to become President of the US I thought they were all much higher than that. I thought 1200 was about average for a college graduate? Even with Lefty Scaevola's idea of adding 80-150, 1356 is still not fantastically high.

In Britain there seem to be many people who think Iain Duncan Smith is too dumb to lead the country, and he could probably get better than that (well, maybe not )

quote: Originally posted by Ned Yeah, it does look like neither Gore nor Bush are Yale material

That's what worries me, surely there are many candidates who would be better than both?

	03-05-2003 00:56									#101
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Drogue, the smartest, smartest people usually aren't the best leaders. In fact, a lot of them are very introverted and the rest don't want to be bothered by the BS of politics (and thus can't really navigate it).

	03-05-2003 00:59									#102
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Bush is an 'm' short of being a Latter Day Saint.

	03-05-2003 01:01									#103
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Always count on St. Leo to say something less than intelligent .

	03-05-2003 01:02									#104
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What's an Ormon?

	03-05-2003 01:07									#105
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Best president we've had in ages. This guy doesn't live by the polls like Clinton, saying something different everywhere he goes depending on who he's talking to. I got so sick of that wimp letting terrorists push us around. Bush has guts, and he has the BRAINS to take charge. Clinton just followed. Either the polls or his willie.

	03-05-2003 01:28									#106
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Gore had 1355? i took the test once and beat him and that's with being in the philly public school system...

you know what... i really think that my boys here in philly should be running the country; not these rich crackers... anyone who can stay straight here is beyond presidential material


thanks

	03-05-2003 01:31									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Drogue, the smartest, smartest people usually aren't the best leaders. In fact, a lot of them are very introverted and the rest don't want to be bothered by the BS of politics (and thus can't really navigate it).

True, but I would have thought being pretty clever was a pre-requisite. I mean there must be enough really really clever people who want to be President, and who have all the other necessary skills, so you don't have to choose one who has the necessary skills, but not the brain-power.

I would admire Bush's courage, but that isn't something I admire much. Like blind patriotism. I'll never forget this small lady on a British program about America in Iraq, who said she had no idea about it, but she follows her President 100%

	03-05-2003 01:40									#108
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Yeah, cleverness is a pre-requisite... but I think Bush is pretty damned clever.

Of course, the most clever people end up behind the scenes, because they are unelectable for one reason or another.

	03-05-2003 02:01									#109
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quote: He went to Yale and Harvard Business School. What have all these other geniuses done to be able to all him a "moron" (the current epithet of the day)?

If my Daddy was a former president and a Yale alumnus, I could manage a C- average at there too.

	03-05-2003 02:08									#110
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Next we will have people claiming Bush can jump skyscrappers and the sort. There is this Cult of Personality around him, like with Reagan, which is absurd. My bet is, in 20 years, we will hardly be getting "the writings of Bush II" of a quality anywhere near those of Reagan.

People should be recognized for thier strenghts, but their weaknesses have to be understood as well. Bush is a man of conviction and determination. Once he decided on somehting, he will push it relentlessly. That is a important value for a leader. Bush is not a genius, nor is he well above normal intelliegence, and he shows very little intelelctualism or intellectual curiosity. Now, it is fair to say determination and conviction are more important than being brilliant for a leader- but do not confuse the two for they are not the same.

	03-05-2003 02:12									#111
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So far he's allowed military leaders to make miltary decisions.
Made for well-run operations that were quickly over.

What a dope Bush is.

	03-05-2003 02:21									#112
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However he's also given a controvertial tax break to the rich, among many other policies. He may have been good over Iraq, but I think GePap was not just refering to Iraq (although I could be wrong )

	03-05-2003 02:26									#113
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what is with this idea that people have that if somebody is of a different idealogy than you then automatically they are stupid?

	03-05-2003 02:26									#114
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He's going to have to step aside all the more, and seek advice from domestic advisors; this I will certainly admit.

GePap's true point is that even a blind squirrel finds a nut on occasion.
A blast with a shotgun is bound to hit something.

	03-05-2003 02:32									#115
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one thing that i do find odd about the Bush/Blair relationship is that there seems to be no conflict between the Republican Bush and the Labour Blair...

	03-05-2003 02:34									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue However he's also given a controvertial tax break to the rich, among many other policies. He may have been good over Iraq, but I think GePap was not just refering to Iraq (although I could be wrong )

Taxes will still be progressive. They will just be less progressive. There is plenty of economic research to show the benefits of cutting taxes AT THE MARGIN.

Anyway, there are smart people on both sides of this issue. At some point, it comes down to what your beleifs are in terms of amount of free marketism/amount of socialism.

And if taxes for the rich were 70% (at one time they were), you'd still have people saying that it is a
break" to lower them. Even if they were lowered to a rate higher than what we have currently.

Think about it...Einstein.

	03-05-2003 02:36									#117
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Blair is not left wing though. With New Labour, it seems the Lib Dems are the only even slightly left party we had. I'm begining to think I'd rather have the Tories back, if it wasn't for them elected people like IDS as their leader. Blair and Bush, personally, seem to have a lot in common. The fact one wants slightly higher tax and better public services, and the other want's the opposite, probably wouldn't come up in Foreign Relations.

	03-05-2003 02:39									#118
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quote: Originally posted by GP Anyway, there are smart people on both sides of this issue.

Exactly my point. That's why it's contravertial.

quote: Originally posted by GP Think about it...Einstein.

I think it was you that didn't get my point. I didn't say they were bad, I said they were controvertial

	03-05-2003 02:42									#119
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is it a fair assessment to say that Labour is equivalent to the American Democratic party?

	03-05-2003 02:44									#120
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You'll get all kinds of War of The Words asking that, Albert.