 |
| |
|
|
JohnT
|
 |
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:27
|
|
Title: Red Mars
Author: Kim Stanley Robinson
Released: 1993
Publisher: Bantam Spectra
Awards: Best Novel (Nebula Award, 1993).
From Amazon: “Red Mars opens with a tragic murder, an event that becomes the focal point for the surviving characters and the turning point in a long intrigue that pits idealistic Mars colonists against a desperately overpopulated Earth, radical political groups of all stripes against each other, and the interests of transnational corporations against the dreams of the pioneers.
This is a vast book: a chronicle of the exploration of Mars with some of the most engaging, vivid, and human characters in recent science fiction. Robinson fantasizes brilliantly about the science of terraforming a hostile world, analyzes the socio-economic forces that propel and attempt to control real interplanetary colonization, and imagines the diverse reactions that humanity would have to the dead, red planet.
Red Mars is so magnificent a story, you will want to move on to Blue Mars and Green Mars. But this first, most beautiful book is definitely the best of the three. Readers new to Robinson may want to follow up with some other books that take place in the colonized solar system of the future: either his earlier (less polished but more carefree) The Memory of Whiteness and Icehenge, or 1998's Antarctica. --L. Blunt Jackson “
edit by markg's evil commerce-maniac twin
Last edited by MarkG on 04-05-2003 at 05:16
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Seeker
|
 |
London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
|
|
Pros: Scope, cool religio-cultural stuff. The 'swiss-arabs'. The wacky ecology guys.
Cons:
Characterization feels a little Arthur C Clarkish (i.e. wooden) sometimes.
Huge, incredible engineering achievements are glossed over, despite that whole national budgets would've have to have been sacrificed for, for example, the (1st)Space Stalk.
His whole colonization scheme is a little too big and sexy, the colonization ship has huge recreation decks and thousands of people! In reality it would be a tuna can with a few people and a lot of cabin fever.
He doesn't make much use of underground Roman atrium style architecture that would dominate Red mars.
Emotional Issue:
Arkady's first Mars Rebels are way too easy pushovers. The cost for sending a huge invasion fleet from earth to mars would be astronomical, let alone the fact that technologically and numerically the Martians and invading terrans should've been about equal. Also, in the battle the inflated domes are the Martians terrible weakness, while in reality a Red Mars civilization would be among the most bombardment resistent, living in hidden duricrete bunkers, with intimate knowledge of radiation, deep deep extensive extensive canyon systems, 'hard target' water and food supplies, etc.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JohnT
|
|
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:27
|
|
[moderator hat on]
This is the first book in a series of four – two novels follow this one, plus a collection of short stories based in the same universe. Expect Red Mars to be spoiled mercilessly, but I do implore people to use the [ spoiler ] tag when they mention plot points that occur in the later novels – even if you aren’t sure in which book a given situation occurred, use the tag.
[moderator hat off]
As I mentioned in the prior threads, I totally enjoyed this book. I was surprised when a number of people jumped in and dissented, but I have a feeling that we are probably talking about different aspects of the same book.
The first thing I enjoyed about the novel was its structure, both in how it followed disparate characters, throwing the convention of having a single point of view out the window; and also how it opened in the middle, with the reader knowing from the very start that one man was doomed to the ambitions of an old friend.
The shifting point of views was handled well, with Robinson doing a credible job of giving each character different voices, though it must be admitted it has been done better in works like Hyperion (release a year or two before this novel). Regardless, this let the reader get a glimpse into the vastness of the planet in both a physical and social sense. It is interesting that people, even ex-lovers, lose contact with each other for years while still being functional members of society. Robinson is showing us the vastness of this undertaking, the number of people and the investment that it would take to develop Mars.
I do wish that Robinson continued with the implied structure of the book that he started with: As the first half opened with the Boone assassination, it would’ve been interesting had the last half of the book opened with the destruction of the elevator (maybe the part where the guy is picked up), and then had the rest of the novel lay out what could’ve gone wrong to bring out such a scenario.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JohnT
|
|
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:27
|
|
"Characterization feels a little Arthur C Clarkish (i.e. wooden) sometimes."
If we're comparing KSR to other science fiction writers, I emphatically disagree (otoh, if we're comparing him to Shakespeare or Twain, that's a different story). I think that he did a very credible job of creating different characters, from the emotionally needy Maya, to the politician John, to the disassociated Michel. As I mentioned above, I don't think he did a great job of creating unique voices for his characters, but I think he did a very good job of defining these people.
quote:
That evening he went looking for Maya, feeling helpless in the grip of a compulsion. The decision had been made the night before, when Janet said, “She loves you, you know.” And he turned a corner to the dining commons there she was, her head thrown back in the middle of her pealing laugh, vividly Maya, her hair as white it as it had once been black, her eyes fixed on her companion; a man, dark-haired, handsome, perhaps in his fifties, smiling at her. Maya pu a hand to his upper arm, a characteristic gesture, one of her usual intimacies, it meant nothing and in fact indicated that he was not her lover but rather someone she was in the process of enchanting; the could have met just minutes before, although the look on his face indicated he knew her better than that.
She turned and saw Frank, blinked with surprise. She looked back at the man and continued to speak, in Russian, her hand still in his arm.
Frank hesitated and almost turned and left. Silently he cursed himself – was he no more than a schoolboy, then? He walked by them and said hell, did not hear if they replied. All through the dinner she stayed glued to the man’s side, not looking his way, not coming over. The man, pleasant-enough looking, was surprised at her attention, surprised but pleased. Clearly they would leave together, clearly they would spend the night together. That foreknowledge always made people pleasant. She would use people like that without a qualm, the *****. Love… The more he thought about it, the angrier he got. She had never loved anyone but herself. And yet… that look on her face when she first saw him; for a split second hadn’t she been pleased, and then wanted him angry at her? And wasn’t that a sign of hurt feelings, of a desire to hurt back, meaning a certain (incredibly childish) desire for him?
Well, to hell with her. He went back to his room and packed his bag, and took the subway to the train stations, and got on a night train west, up Tharsis to Pavonis Mons. |
I found the above passage to ring true and clear, the thoughts of a man who is compelled to reject love, one who will use any reason to drive it from their possession. Frank is truly incapable of changing his nature, and, tragically, glimpses the need to.
I really liked the “Frank” passages: I found that a Mars viewed through his torment was more interesting than the same Mars viewed from John’s need to understand, or Nadia’s need to control.
Oh, the colony ship had 100 people on it.
Last edited by JohnT on 02-05-2003 at 23:15
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
St Leo
|
 |
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:27
|
|
Characters I like as people: Saxifrage, Nadia, Arkady, Frank, John
Characters I don't like as people: Michel, Hiroko, Phyllis, Coyote, all the nissei/sansei, Art
Characters I am apathetic towards: Maya, Ann
I haven't read the book since last fall, but maybe I can fake it.
The original is superior mostly because Robinson gets a bit too crazy economics- and society-wise in the sequels. The fact that Saxifrage's character gets ruined in the third book doesn't endear it to me either. However, I prefer the grander scale of the terraforming in the later books. Oh, well.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Eli
|
|
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:27
|
|
Che :
And where do other major events like the second elevator and the two wars fit in?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Static Universe
|
|
This book is a ****ing disaster. I had high expectations for it, as it was sold as a nuts-and-bolts hard sci-fi novel about the terraforming of Mars. Which is everything it isn't.
The first half, everything pre-"Falling into History", is probably among the worst writing I have ever read, and I've read a lot. Anticipating a fairly detailed account of the early days of a scientific colonization mission, what we are presented with instead is "Dawson's Creek Goes To Mars", occasionally broken up with lists of unexplained scientific processes that are somehow related to the settling and terraforming of a planet, maybe.
Even the tools get a page long list, although Robinson never really explains what any of them might be used for, or why it's OK for crew members to steal them for hording purposes.
It's hard to talk about the so-called "terraforming" in the book, as it really isn't there. The characters get an idea then suddenly it's ten years later and everything is already done. Pretty realistic.
Even the landing of the expedition gets short shrift. There's all this tension about the actual landing, then suddenly everyone is down on the ground soaking in jacuzzis. Hello, what about the drama of the water shortage?
And how did they get down there, one wonders? Robinson mentions "parachutes" later, so I guess everything got down by parachutes. Regardless, it's sloppy writing.
I don't really see the "Windmill" bit as an example of an attempt at terraforming that failed. It was really a botched attempt to introduce a dramatic element into the story by having the windmills be a trojan horse for Arkady and Nadia to find out about while they disperse them. Completely unnecessary, as a) the UN approves the spread of genetically engineered lichen a page after the tension is introduced, and b) the lichen die anyway.
Robinson also has serious problems noting the passage of time. Since things flow so quickly in the novel, it probably would have helped to preface sections of the book with dates of some kind, although I never really figured out the Martian calender, or how it relates to the earth calender. Or why the "Martian Time-Slip" is a good idea. Imagine being at your job at midnight and suddenly there's 59 minutes of stopped clock you don't get paid for. And what happens to the computers? Do they register this time?
Well OK, the story is going to be more character driven. I can accept that. But not with these characters.
Everyone in this book is stereotypical as you can get: the mad Russian, the inscrutable Asian, the swarthy bad guy, the fair-haired good guy, the woman who sleeps her way to power, her fat friend. You get the picture.
The character development is probably the worst I've ever seen anywhere, ever, below early 90s Marvel comics even. No one gets more than a token backstory, if that, even the major characters. Most exist simply as stereotypes. Not something that's good in a novel so character driven. We get a little bit about Frank and John in the second half, but not much. Certainly not enough to fully explain Boone's murder.
The Boone-Maya-Frank triangle never really gels, because we never really find out who these characters are. "The Voyage Out", pretty much told from Maya's POV, makes it pretty clear she thinks Frank is a creepy guy, and we never find out why she's madly in love with him in the rest of the book.
The big problem here is Robinson's [botched] attempt to tell the story subjectively, but in the third person, and leaving it for the reader to figure it out a hundred pages in. He does a fair job of explaining how the characters feel, but never really touches on the why.
Which pretty much throws everything out the window as far as actually knowing what the hell is going on with any of the characters, or caring about them. Example: Hiroko is constantly described as "withdrawn". Yeah, she's completely withdrawn, if you don't count the fertility cult she's building out of a tenth of the crew. 
"Falling into History" was probably the best part of the book. Boone is a likeable character, and his rambling tour of Mars, which apparently takes a good number of years (but it's hard to tell), is interesting. His drug use never really becomes an issue in any way, and then he's killed before he really has any of the political power he seems to have at the beginning of the book. He meets some people, makes a few speeches, then he's dead. Not really a credible threat to Frank IMO.
The details of the second half I won't even get into, as "Revoluton in Space" is such a sci-fi cliche it isn't really worth discussing, especially since next months book is The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. I'll probably refer back to Red Mars next month, so I won't get into it now.
Worth pointing out is the fact that they can use what seem to be fairly cheap methods for terraforming Mars, but somehow back on earth they can't even irrigate a desert to feed all those people? The First 100 clearly needs to publish more in the scientific journals back on earth. 
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Static Universe
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yep... most of it was Maya. Frank and John actually get along fairly well, until Maya shows up on the scene. It definetly adds up.
|
It's pretty clear to me that Frank resents John's presence long before Maya shows up on the scene.
quote:
Oh, and SU, if this book was all about terraforming, I would have put it down after 10 pages. I liked the characters and the interplay between them. |
Frankly, I'm more interested in a realistic depiction of the hardships of colonizing a new world than I am about some cliche melodrama about revolution.
You can have a realistic hard science fiction novel about terraforming and colonization and still have a good read about how humans live and interrelate under adversity despite differing political and ecological philosophies.
Unfortunately Robinson does not have that novel in him.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
chegitz guevara
|
 |
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:27
|
|
Static Universe, tell us what you really think. Don't hold back. 
Science fiction, even hard science fiction, is about the human condition. It sounds like what you wanted was a technical manual with a story woven through it. Red Mars is a story about what happens to people. None of the situations people come up against in the book are situations we aren't going to have to deal with, one way or another, in the colonization of Mars. The exposure to high levels of radiation for example. I, for one, didn't know that CO2 was poisonous. I just thought it was a lack of oxygen that made the Martian atmosphere deadly.
Why won't Martian terraforming options work on Earth? Life! The Sahara is a living ecosystem. We place a lot of value on our wild places in this world. People also live in many of these places, so you have to account for them as well, especially in democracies. India may want to displace three million people to create a reservior, but if they refuse to move, they have a problem on their hands. If they're China, they can forcably relocate people.
The problems the Martians are dealing with have little pratical application on Earth. Our problem is global warming. On Mars they want global warming. On Mars, they need to put stuff into the atmosphere. On Earth, we want to take stuff out of the atmosphere. Mars may be a desert, but it's one like the Antarctic, one full of water (at least the story assumes it). Earth is covered in water, but we don't have enough of the right kind of water.
======
Frank's problem with John is all about jealousy. Things come easy to John, Frank has to work for them. Frank was supposed to be the leader of the expedition, John becomes the person everyone looks to, John gets Maya, John becomes unofficial leader of Mars, etc. John is Frank's obstacle in all things, so he must be done away with.
========
So, what happens when new ground is opened up for people to begin livin their lives. At what point do you stop being colonists and become citizens of a new society. What rights do you have, what responsibilities do you owe?
Everything outside Earth is assumed, by existing treaty, to be the common property of humanity. So what happens when people start living there. At what point do they have a more important say in what happens. It's kind of like Alaska or the American West, in this way. Most of those areas are Federal property, the common property of the whole of the American people. People live there, however. Who has the greater right? Proximaty changes the equation, since they are too close to the US to assert any effective independence. Mars, however, is far away. How does that change things?
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:27.
Apolyton Time is 00:27. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
02-05-2003 17:35
.
.
what? 
|