05-05-2003 22:56									#31
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Anarchism is on the far left, not the far right.

	05-05-2003 23:01									#32
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Fez, be glad I didn't use my photoshop skills to do other things.

	05-05-2003 23:02									#33
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I couldn't answer this poll with one number. To use the Political Compass axes, I'm about a 5.5 (almost bang on the middle) economically, and about a 4 in terms of authoritarian/libertarian.

	05-05-2003 23:03									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Anarchism is on the far left, not the far right.

But I thought Democrats were for bigger government.

	05-05-2003 23:03									#35
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quote: Except you can have extremely religious democrats. You can also have libertarian democrats and republicans.

Uhm...democrats and republicans are both very much to the right...in fact, democrats are more to the right than the "rightest" party in sweden, moderaterna...

quote: And how are both anarchy and fascism on the far right? If anything they're extreme opposites.

I don't think they´re opposites at all...fascists think the strongest should rule...which is what happens in an anarchy....

quote: And what about fiscally vs. socially? ie, someone who is fiscally conservative and socially liberal - where would they fit? Or someone who is fiscally liberal and socially conservative?

fiscally vs socially means the same thing...high taxes gives the government resources, which gives power....
And still...democrats are to the right...

quote: (Never mind that a 6 in the US isn't going to be the same thing as a 6 in Europe)

should have mentioned that in the first post...I'll do it now....

quote: How many times does the same sort of poll need to be posted?

sorry, haven't seen one before

	05-05-2003 23:03									#36
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Sava, you naughty, naughty guy.. if you want to put me kissing you... I am taken! I know you are desperate.. but there are plenty of other chances out there.

	05-05-2003 23:05									#37
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quote: But I thought Democrats were for bigger government

Actually, all things considered, I'd say Republicans in general are for bigger government than Democrats. But the size of the government one supports is a silly way to categorize left and right.

	05-05-2003 23:07									#38
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quote: Anarchism is on the far left, not the far right.

Uhm...no...communism is to the left...which is the opposite of anarchism....

for all you guys:

money=power so economically is ALMOST the same thing as authoritarian. right?

	05-05-2003 23:08									#39
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Do you know what anarchism is?

	05-05-2003 23:09									#40
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But anarchism is not on the right. I do not associate with anarchists.

	05-05-2003 23:10									#41
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8-6+2=4.

	05-05-2003 23:11									#42
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This is exactly why you can't have a scale like this. THERE ARE MORE THAN TWO DAMN IDEOLOGIES!!

	05-05-2003 23:12									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Thirgaral Uhm...democrats and republicans are both very much to the right...in fact, democrats are more to the right than the "rightest" party in sweden, moderaterna...

So you can't be religious and to the left? Or non-religious and to the right?

quote: I don't think they´re opposites at all...fascists think the strongest should rule...which is what happens in an anarchy....

Fascists believe in a strong and powerful central authority with complete control of the country. Anarchy believes in no central authority (or a very weak one).

I don't see how these are simmilar at all.

quote: fiscally vs socially means the same thing...high taxes gives the government resources, which gives power....

No they don't mean the same thing. You can believe that that the government should have a very socially liberal policy (pro-choice, pro-civil liberties, pro-affirmative action, etc), while also believing that the government should keep taxes low, keeping the marketplace relatively free and open and not spend money on programs like social security and welfare, etc.
Simmilarly, you could be very much to the right on policies (pro-life, anti-aff action, anti gun control, etc) and still want the government to tax and spend on things like religious charities, military, etc.

	05-05-2003 23:12									#44
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quote: Do you know what anarchism is?

AFAIK, it's when there's no government ruling

quote: But anarchism is not on the right. I do not associate with anarchists

Me neither, but that's doesn't mean I can't be to the right, right?

	05-05-2003 23:16									#45
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quote: AFAIK, it's when there's no government ruling

Anarchism doesn't necessarily mean the lack of government, although there are some anarchists that do believe that. Rather, it's the idea that authority should be minimized, public and private. Basically, it's libertarian socialism.

	05-05-2003 23:19									#46
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7.

At least, closer to 7 than 8 I guess.

	05-05-2003 23:20									#47
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I did a search on the word "Anarchism" in dictionary.com... here is what it came up with:

quote: The theory or doctrine that all forms of government are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished. Active resistance and terrorism against the state, as used by some anarchists. Rejection of all forms of coercive control and authority: “He was inclined to anarchism; he hated system and organization and uniformity” (Bertrand Russell).

Is this not accurate, Ramo?

	05-05-2003 23:21									#48
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I voted banana... Monkey!!!

I am conservative when it comes to economics. I am against political involvement to an extent. I feel that the only place the government should be involved, economically, is to protect the consumers.

I also feel that the government should stay out of the moral affairs of ppl, and should only come into play to protect the rights of those who do not have similar moral values.

I'm pro-choice, anti-AA, anti-gun control, pro-death penalty, tentative on civil liberties, for the tax cut, for decreasing government spending, for dereg.

I take a stance, but as far as classifing myself

	05-05-2003 23:21									#49
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No, Fez, using an online dictionary generally isn't the best way to learn about political philosophy.

	05-05-2003 23:26									#50
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quote: So you can't be religious and to the left? Or non-religious and to the right?

people have different ideas of what christianity stands for as well...
so yes you can....
there are thousands of religions out there...

quote: Fascists believe in a strong and powerful central authority with complete control of the country. Anarchy believes in no central authority (or a very weak one).

No, fascists don't... well, not the ideology fascism, although that's what's happened in fascist-ruled countries....

quote: No they don't mean the same thing. You can believe that that the government should have a very socially liberal policy (pro-choice, pro-civil liberties, pro-affirmative action, etc), while also believing that the government should keep taxes low, keeping the marketplace relatively free and open and not spend money on programs like social security and welfare, etc.

you sort of misunderstood me there....I don't say that all ideologies fit in perfectly in the left-right scale. some fit in more, some less...
uhm..wait...

quote: You can believe that that the government should have a very socially liberal policy (pro-choice, pro-civil liberties, pro-affirmative action, etc), while also believing that the government should keep taxes low, keeping the marketplace relatively free and open and not spend money on programs like social security and welfare, etc.

then you're to the right....

quote: Simmilarly, you could be very much to the right on policies (pro-life, anti-aff action, anti gun control, etc) and still want the government to tax and spend on things like religious charities, military, etc.

then you're to the left

	05-05-2003 23:34									#51
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quote: Anarchism doesn't necessarily mean the lack of government, although there are some anarchists that do believe that. Rather, it's the idea that authority should be minimized, public and private. Basically, it's libertarian socialism.

the ideology of anarchy, as all other ideologies, changes from time to time...what fez found in the dictionary is what it meant from the beginning, and it's alsowhat the name itself means



some political issues just can't be put on the right left scale...they have nothing to do with...as for the military issue...
but you can't build an entire ideology on military opninions (except for Glory of War ) so you'll still be in a left-right scale....

	05-05-2003 23:37									#52
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No, I just explained what anarchists stood for in "the beginning," and what they have always stood for. What Fez found in the dictionary was primarily a result of gov't slander and repression.

As for what the name itself means, anarchism literally means without authority. Meaning without state authority as well as without private authority.

	05-05-2003 23:42									#53
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quote: No, fascists don't... well, not the ideology fascism, although that's what's happened in fascist-ruled countries....

I don't think you know what fascism is, either.

	05-05-2003 23:42									#54
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quote: No, I just explained what anarchists stood for in "the beginning," and what they have always stood for. What Fez found in the dictionary was primarily a result of gov't slander and repression.

I thought anarchy meant "lack of government"or "nobody rules"(I'm not so good in latin)

whatever

quote: Rather, it's the idea that authority should be minimized, public and private.

which'll mean it's to the right?

	05-05-2003 23:45									#55
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quote: I'm not so good in latin

The word is Greek, not Latin.

quote: which'll mean it's to the right?

No, it's to the left. It's a variant of socialism. No self-respecting anarchist would say that he's a rightist.

	05-05-2003 23:46									#56
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quote: I don't think you know what fascism is, either.

well, not all fascists agree on what fascism really is, just as all anarchists don't agree.....

I know people who claim that they're fascists without believing in a "complete control authority"...so...

	05-05-2003 23:52									#57
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quote: The word is Greek, not Latin.

I see that now when you say it...I'm not so good in greek either

quote: No, it's to the left. It's a variant of socialism. No self-respecting anarchist would say that he's a rightist.

No, since they don't think that the gov should handle the "socialhelp" they're not socialists... People to the right think that all people should have a nice life too, you know

Many many self-respecting anarchists say they're rightists...

	06-05-2003 00:01									#58
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quote: well, not all fascists agree on what fascism really is, just as all anarchists don't agree..... I know people who claim that they're fascists without believing in a "complete control authority"...so..

I don't know what "complete control authority" exactly is, but the idea behind fascism is that the state should "mediate" between all elements of society for the benefit of the nation. And if the some element of society gets out of line - if workers strike, or people protest the gov't, etc., etc., the state takes care of them. That's what the founders of fascism - people like Barres and Mussolini advocated.

quote: No, since they don't think that the gov should handle the "socialhelp" they're not socialists...

Socialism isn't the same thing as a welfare state. Socialism is the worker control of the means of production. Social democrats are capitalists.

quote: Many many self-respecting anarchists say they're rightists...

I thought you said you didn't associate with anarchists. How would you know what they believe?

	06-05-2003 00:08									#59
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5 - I'm a complete centrist. I have some left views, some right views, and many centre ones.

	06-05-2003 00:12									#60
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quote: I don't know what "complete control authority" exactly is, but the idea behind fascism is that the state should "mediate" between all elements of society for the benefit of the nation. And if the some element of society gets out of line - if workers strike, or people protest the gov't, etc., etc., the state takes care of them. That's what the founders of fascism - people like Barres and Mussolini advocated.

the thing is...they don't care who does it....as long as it gets done...that's the difference...

quote: Socialism isn't the same thing as a welfare state. Socialism is the worker control of the means of production. Social democrats are capitalists.

Social democrats are capitalists???WTF? No they are NOT...I should know...I live in a country where over 40 % are Social Democrats!!!!!

quote: I thought you said you didn't associate with anarchists. How would you know what they believe?

I still have friends who are anarchists, I don't care what their political opinions are...