04-07-2003 05:06									#61
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Lazerus what are the settign you are using for this game?
Post the most recent save and the oldest ones you have for the game.

	05-07-2003 06:10									#62
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By the way, who first did the emissions guidance Strategy to kill the Gaurdian?

	05-07-2003 06:29									#63
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Not me, I never attack it with missiles. I am in no huge rush to get to it, just want to do it when I am ready to take out other races.

	05-07-2003 21:00									#64
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Hi Frankychan. This place used to be a haunt of mine as well.

	06-07-2003 00:28									#65
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Impossible level, 8 players, its large galaxy, average tech and average development. Tactical,random events and antaran attacks are all off (haven't really learnt about how to use the ships yet)
Its a custom race aswell, cant remember the exact specs

The zip file contains the earliest save just before my first war, a second after this war which i managed to win in a convincing fashion and then a third abit later where i was framed against 3 of the AI and thats when the gangbang started

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/La...ssiblelevel.zip

Thanks for any help

	06-07-2003 01:39									#66
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Turn on tactical combat, you've got to experiment around to find out worthwhile stuff(also the ai still auto designs stuff for you incase you want to just use the ai's designs). Thats probably the single largest thing increasing the difficulty on you. Antarans really aren't a terror(unless you are playing 2 player small galaxy with the junk race -1/2 food/-1 prod/-1 res/poor hw/cybernetic), and random isn't too bad, but what is that space eel doing around that colony if the events are off. Who got orion, the gnolams?

Ok, from the 3518.1 screw fighting the birds unless they get too annoying, grab the sarkas and get 1 to every colony you have(also this will remove them from fighting you)

Also in the one where everyone is hitting you, only 6 planets are fighting you. you are fine. Just a tip, stop bombing people out and recolonizing, they have nice bonuses. Bring some troop transports with you.

	06-07-2003 01:41									#67
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Ok, no one got orion, wierdness.

Also Forget what I said about ground combat, you got too little of it and took a penalty there. trade,steal, or research some ground tech stuff.

Oh, in a few turns you will have enough to take orion by the way, I suggest you do that.

Last edited by Whoha on 06-07-2003 at 01:51

	06-07-2003 04:44									#68
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I will wil look at them today, I am in the midst of a huge game of CivIII.
I will agree that you should not give up the advantage of tactical combat until you are very comfortable with impossible games. It is a big advantage and the most fun.

	06-07-2003 09:25									#69
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Lazerus well I interrupted my Civ game to peek at this game.
I did not figure out why I could not design a ship, but anyway I really dislike putting bombs on ships. In Moo2 it is just not worth doing.
Why are you research Lighting Fields? I never use them.
Trying to get to class V shields? If you grab Zort armor you could refit and remove bombs, interceptors and missiles from your battleships and take down the Guardian. If you get X-armor you are a lock.
I would be checking on my planets that are making too much food and set them to research. I do not like to build wealth unless I have to do it.
I would scrap some of the extra freighters as well.
In fact I would get rid of all my cruisers or less to reduce my cost, you are over your cap.
BTW EMO is on a system with only two planets, one small and one tiny. You have some better systems for a leader.
I would also trade or start stealing tech to fill in some of the holes.

	06-07-2003 09:35									#70
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Oh how slow I am. The reason I could not redesign ships is that you have turned off tactical combat.
That is the main reason to not do that. The AI will build ships for you and they will suck.
The big advantage you have over the AI is you can make better ships and in a better time frame.
So now you have only two ways to beat him in a fight.
Bigger ships with better tech or more ships in the battle.
You no longer have the ability to use a better ship design to offset the AI's numbers.
Since you are not creative, you will not have better tech unless you research faster and steal the missing stuff.
To that end, make more spies and go get the tech. Try to trade first to get anything you can.
Move as many workers as you can spare to research to get in the lead. capturing planets can get you some tech as well.
Key ones are better computers, pop boost and terraforming. Production boost are next.

	06-07-2003 18:25									#71
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Well i managed to win it

I stuck with my plan of killing the silicoids as every time i left them they started bombing my outer colonies and replacing them with their own, luckily the gnolams finished off their last colony i couldnt reach. The psilons then did most of the hard work against the gnolams who i finished off. After this i went and captured orion, death rays and stuff are cool
I was framed against the meklar who declared war (even though they were my allies) but soon slaughtered them as i had half a dozen titans nearby and new weapons to try out.
Since the psilons were fairly peaceful at this time i went and killed the saakra before they started pestering me as they'd already knocked off 3 small colonies.

Then came the big one, the psilons who after stealing 3 of my techs (mainly the stuff from orion and class V shields ) i demanded 3 back, got 2 of them but then they declared war, and boy was it bloody, lost a damn lot of colonies as they had a fleet with 12 battleships and 5 cruisers just destroying any planet they were near, i tried intercepting this fleet with 11 titans but i got slaughtered ! so instead since i had alot more colonies to cope with loses we just smacked each others bases around until i'd eventually razed all of his and there we have it i've completed impossible

vmxa i already had class V shields on my ships, i was just researching anything that would improve my fleet, first time going through the game for me so still dont know whats useless and whats a big help.
Is there anyway to choose what you want your spies to steal ? i took a -10 bonus that game and even with as many spies as i could send to a target player i was getting 1 tech every 20 turns or so (i had done some research to improve their rating aswell).

	06-07-2003 22:48									#72
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no way to direct spies. This recent game i'm playing I took out spy networks for everyone but myself, and the ai is still spying...

	07-07-2003 01:56									#73
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How can i take out their spy networks ? guessing that would cut down on the amount of times im framed

	07-07-2003 02:02									#74
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I guess with corion, a moo2 save game editor. Searching for it on google should provide you with plenty of links.
Can be quite fun, I once started a huge game and then deleted every star system and every planet except the home planets.

	07-07-2003 03:20									#75
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Most people will select all the improvments for spies when they are playing as a non creative.
Tele training being about the first big one. In each choice that comes up, I am probably taking the one that helps spies or agents. You have to give up some good stuff, but if you do not get all the enhancements in this area, you will get everything stolen or sabetoged.
I like to make lots of spies to prevent stealing once I get the tech lead.
A few spies (4) is often enough to get steals, it may take time.
I do not worry about being framed as I am likely to be repulsive anyway, so no one will like me and I can not trade.
In fact I normally will not be taking -spying. I have used it extensively in the past and it is not a bad choice, but rep -GC -SA is an easy -10 picks.
Of course if you are playing with no Tactical combat, you can not afford to take -SA.

	07-07-2003 03:26									#76
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Lazerus next game that you start post your setting and then the tech choices as you make them. Then all of fanboys can toss in what we would take with that race and why.
Most of the time a prewarp start or a normal tech start will use the same basic picks. It can vary with some races and some strats.
You may enjoy trying the same race using tactical combat to see the difference in the game.

	07-07-2003 22:01									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus How can i take out their spy networks ? guessing that would cut down on the amount of times im framed

Make lots of counterspies and pick tech that help with security.

Oh, you mean spies in other countries? Nothing you can do.

	08-07-2003 01:03									#78
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I meant the technology spying networks, taking it out does not help

	08-07-2003 01:51									#79
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I also wish there was a way to taunt the antarans :P

	08-07-2003 17:57									#80
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Any hints on what my early,mid and late game ship designs should be like since im going to start a one with the tactical combat turned on. Also whats the best way to fight these battles, big ships with long range or just swarming in 2 dozen small ships with no shields but the best offense weapon around ?

	08-07-2003 18:25									#81
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Lazerus,

the best design's you can find here

I know a lot to read, but worth it

	08-07-2003 20:34									#82
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Well I must concur that will get you well on your way.

	09-07-2003 04:22									#83
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Anyways heres how i started out in my current game.

Settings : Average difficulty, 8 players, large galaxy, average age and technology. Tactical combat ON

Custom race : Cybernetic, Unification, +2 industry, -10 ground combat, -0.5bc.

Fighter bay, automated factories, research labs are nearly always my first 3 picks as i like a further bonus in industry for building colony ships, labs or using as housing.
Deutrerium feul cells (usually stuck in a corner), battle pods (slight mistake here i thought robo miners was after this) and fusion drive next.
Biospheres (big colonies need more room) spaceport, robo miners, neural scanner, planetary supercomputer (i prefer going industry->lab->industry etc )

pollution processor(quite abit of it by now) battle scanner,mass driver,neutron blaster,inertial stabiliser,class 3 shield,iridium fuel cells ... raking in some upgrades for the ships.

soil enrichment,tele training,terraforming (upgrading food production and hospitality of planets)

zortium armour, shield capacitators, grav beam, fast missile racks, Titan construction, stealth suit, rangemaster unit, xeno psych, pulsar, class V shields, sub farms.

After this i was at a tech every 3-5 turns so i felt there was no need to just basically post the tech tree

Will have to look at those ship designs as currently its my industry which as won this again, ive expanded into so many colonies and got so many large titans floating around with class VII shields and shield capacitators that not much hurts them, downside is i haven't even researched plasma weapons yet so when i sent a few to fight that guardian there were butchered rather badly
Also is there a way you can set bases to auto-refit ships to best model when they arrive ?

	09-07-2003 06:41									#84
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No way to auto refit but on the plus side, when you build a ship that has been obsoleted by miniaturization tech your ships in the que get the extra space, and hence extra speed/initiative. Though a good plan, is to have every world but your ultra riches do research, and have your ultra rich worlds be your sole ship producers so its easier to keep track of them.

as for a tech path I generally choose labs,reinforced hulls,autofactories in that order.

you really need reinforced hulls to knock down the gaurdian, 3x structure points really helps ships survive long enough to do damage.

	09-07-2003 12:05									#85
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Originally posted by Lazerus

"Fighter bay, automated factories, research labs are nearly always my first 3 picks as i like a further bonus in industry for building colony ships, labs or using as housing."

CONSTRUCTION 80 rp
Anti Missile Rockets, Reinforced Hull, Fighter Bays

Of these three choices you really must take Reinforced Hull. This is a MUST as you can not take Heavy Armor and you need one or the other.

"Titan construction"

This one is situational. I do not take titan very often as I do not need them and I may need ground batteries as I will not have Battle Stations. Eventually I steal Titan.

"Will have to look at those ship designs as currently its my industry which as won this again, ive expanded into so many colonies and got so many large titans floating around with class VII shields and shield capacitators that not much hurts them, downside is i haven't even researched plasma weapons yet so when i sent a few to fight that guardian there were butchered rather badly"

Hum, I take the guardian down with 5 or 6 battleships using pahsors. I do not use plama cannons in 1.3.1, later I will use disrupters. With the mods on these two beamers, they will rip ships apart. The key is to have the 3500 rp techs researched to boost the capacity of the ship.
Try refitting one of your battleship without the capacitors and rangemasters and using reinforced hulls. Then use autofire phasors and see if they do not do more damage and survive better than what you had.
I find that at the time I finish the 3500 rp and make my BB the guardian does not kill any of them and of course they are much better than the AI ships.

"Also is there a way you can set bases to auto-refit ships to best model when they arrive ?"

Not that I know about.

	09-07-2003 13:07									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Any hints on what my early,mid and late game ship designs should be like since im going to start a one with the tactical combat turned on. Also whats the best way to fight these battles, big ships with long range or just swarming in 2 dozen small ships with no shields but the best offense weapon around ?

It depends on who you are, what your overall stretagy is, and who you are fighting against.

If you have ship defensive bonuses, and you are more less playing defensively, you're better off building small ships.

If you are on the offensive, you need bigger ships, preferably with offensive bonuses.

	09-07-2003 18:03									#87
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I traded and got reinforced hulls for the fighter bay at the start.

Reinforced hulls, disrupters, structural analyzer and pods is great tore the guardian up straight away. Fitting my titans with achilles and damper fields now aswell, shame theres no decent AI fleets to test them out on, will have to try it on hard or impossible.

I prefer to go on the offensive, race doesnt have any inbuilt bonuses but its best to be fighting in their territory none the less so i have been going with the bigger the better scheme at the moment anyways. Also my planets have so high industry quite alot of it is sometimes wasted if i build small ships.

	09-07-2003 21:12									#88
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I should note that my references are for games on impossible level. As you move up the guardian get more HP and is tougher. The AI will get research at a big advantage and can have many more traits than normall. They may have more than 30 picks.
Anyway I only make ships smaller than battleships as a tele or some sort of specail game setting.
IOW I will make BB almost exclusively.

	10-07-2003 10:49									#89
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Why not Doomstars?

	10-07-2003 18:15									#90
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how does BB = battleship (im assuming) anyways