07-05-2003 06:57									#1
	Game Reconstruction Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm in the process of making the PTW DG into a scenario, which can be loaded and made into a PBEM game, which I can edit with Gramphos' C3MT to bring it back to 99.9% accuracy. I may actually be able to replicate it 100%, but I'm not sure. Some things (like Worker actions or units loaded in ships, for example) may not be able to be salvaged, but everything else can be done, including shield # for cities.

This is in case Firaxis is unable to salvage the game. I should be done with it in ~3 days.

	07-05-2003 07:04									#2
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Whoo! Go Trip! Let's give him a big round of applause!

	07-05-2003 07:51									#3
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Trip - wow. That is all I can say.

	07-05-2003 07:53									#4
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And while you are at it - please remove those two evil GS wonders that got us into this in the first place (and maybe take feudalism from them too...)

	07-05-2003 07:59									#5
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A few issues which I know will come up:

Score will be completely reset. This may not be a big problem, but I thought I'd mention it.

All terrain will be "refreshed", so teams will be able to see "new" tile improvements.

I'm positive that there's nothing I can do about these two issues, so I thought I'd let everyone know about them. There may be more problems, but I can't confirm anything else yet.

	07-05-2003 08:05									#6
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Wow, this will obviously take a lot of work.

	07-05-2003 08:07									#7
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Let me know if you need any help...

	07-05-2003 08:11									#8
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How do you account for the GA's though? Will those turns be reset aswell?

	07-05-2003 08:14									#9
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is it possible to preserve World Maps? Or would we just see the land that we posess?

Also, I doubt we can preserve partial research, but who knows ... maybe this advanced editor has that power.

--Togas

	07-05-2003 08:16									#10
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Wow, this will obviously take a lot of work.

I'm already done with GS, ND and GOW.

	07-05-2003 08:17									#11
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quote: Originally posted by alva How do you account for the GA's though? Will those turns be reset aswell?

GA's will be in effect also with correct turns remaining.

	07-05-2003 08:18									#12
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just for the record, GoW had 30 horsemen, 76 swordsmen and 3 GLs

I know the team members will kill me for announcing this in public, but this way if trip forgets to recreate these units that was in there, we have a proof...

	07-05-2003 08:19									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Togas is it possible to preserve World Maps? Or would we just see the land that we posess?

World Maps will be correct, but like I mentioned, they will end up being "refreshed," so if GOW wandered by a RP city which had 1 road next to it 50 turns ago, but the city now has 2 mines and 3 roads, they would now be able to see the new improvements.

quote: Also, I doubt we can preserve partial research, but who knows ... maybe this advanced editor has that power.

Research will be accurate.

	07-05-2003 08:20									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II just for the record, GoW had 30 horsemen, 76 swordsmen and 3 GLs I know the team members will kill me for announcing this in public, but this way if trip forgets to recreate these units that was in there, we have a proof...

I'll make sure to deduct the appropriate 109 GPT from your treasury for the last 20 turns then...

You must have hacked the game, it's not possible to have more than 1 GL at a time...

	07-05-2003 08:35									#15
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As long as you put the units where they were "originally", I'm sure my teammates wont mind the -109 GPT penalty.

	07-05-2003 08:46									#16
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Here's a crazy idea:

The original setting was for Monarch, right? Can the reincarnation be played on the correct level, rather than the chieftain that it defaulted to? Or are we still playing on 1.14 which would reset it again. Or would that change the game rather than correcting it.

	07-05-2003 08:47									#17
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It could be changed, though it might bump it down again...

I'm not sure we want to change the game midway through though.

	07-05-2003 09:16									#18
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If you are using the correct player #'s for the teams it should be possible to just copy out the entire map and paste it into the new scenario using a hex editor. That would preserve everyone's ingame map.

I can show you how to do that, and how to transfer the score/power/culture history and replay data over as well if you're interested.

	07-05-2003 09:35									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson If you are using the correct player #'s for the teams it should be possible to just copy out the entire map and paste it into the new scenario using a hex editor. That would preserve everyone's ingame map. I can show you how to do that, and how to transfer the score/power/culture history and replay data over as well if you're interested.

But couldn't some of that data be responsible for the crashes?

This way everything is "new"!

	07-05-2003 09:36									#20
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Here's a crazy idea: The original setting was for Monarch, right? Can the reincarnation be played on the correct level, rather than the chieftain that it defaulted to? Or are we still playing on 1.14 which would reset it again. Or would that change the game rather than correcting it.

I am against this, we've played the game during the last however many turns with the difficulty where it is, it shouldn't be changed now.

	07-05-2003 09:42									#21
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree I am against this, we've played the game during the last however many turns with the difficulty where it is, it shouldn't be changed now.

This game was intended to be played on Monarch (Or regent, I can't remember which) This is an opportunity to move the game more in line to what it should have been. Granted, if this game is played under 1.14, this point is moot, as the difficulty will reset.

	07-05-2003 09:47									#22
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quote: But couldn't some of that data be responsible for the crashes?

It's possible, but if it is then we just use the clean copy.

	07-05-2003 09:58									#23
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel This game was intended to be played on Monarch (Or regent, I can't remember which) This is an opportunity to move the game more in line to what it should have been. Granted, if this game is played under 1.14, this point is moot, as the difficulty will reset.

Intended or not, the game has been played at this level for too long to change back. People use differnet strategies to deal with unhappiness at differnt levels. To change the game now, nullifies that strategy that has been implemented.

The game set itself back due to a bug; not by any wishes of the teams. This happened fairly soon in the game, no? So the strategy used before the game switched wasn't around for too long. I believe the game has been at it's current level for longer than it was at it's intended level.

To change it now is not fair to anyone.

Let's put Lux back in, they were there in the begining.

	07-05-2003 09:59									#24
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I too would vote against a change to Monarch. Though it was the original intent, it is not what we've had. Teams may have done certain things with the Cheiften setting in mind; changing it now could screw things up unfairly.

	07-05-2003 10:00									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson It's possible, but if it is then we just use the clean copy.

I guess Trip could make two scenarios for us, it shouldn't take much longer than one.

	07-05-2003 10:01									#26
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Let's put Lux back in, they were there in the begining.

Don't even think about it Trip!!!

Anyway, I think Trip deserves a big for all the trouble he's gone through to do this

	07-05-2003 10:29									#27
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Thanks, Trip. I, too, would not like to see the difficulty level setting changed in mid-game. Too much planning has been invested based on the settings we've been using.

	07-05-2003 10:34									#28
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Thank you Trip, it would have been a shame if this game would be stopped by an ignorant bug in the save!

	07-05-2003 11:25									#29
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Thanks for your work Trip!

	07-05-2003 11:59									#30
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, Trip!

And as a side-note, I would also discourage from setting the difficulty level to Monarch now - as others correctly pointed out, strategies differ for different difficulty levels. It would be unfair to have to change them half-way through the game.