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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:28
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Ah, here is the thread. 
quote:
2) His gambling never hurt anyone else. This is, of course, the classic libertarian standard of permissible behavior, and I think it's a good one. If a hypocrite is a person who says one thing and does another, the problem with Bennett is what he says -- not (as far as we know) what he does. Bennett can't plead liberty now, because opposing libertarianism is what his sundry crusades are all about. He wants to put marijuana smokers in jail. He wants to make it harder to get divorced. He wants more "moral criticism of homosexuality" and "declining to accept that what they do is right."
In all these cases, Bennett wants laws against or heightened social disapproval of activities that have no direct harmful effects on anyone except the participants. He argues that the activities in question are encouraging other, more harmful activities, or are eroding general social norms in some vague way. |
And that form of hypocrisy is the most repugnant. You go to jail because, even though you may not hurt yourself or others with your vice, others have destroyed their lives by sharing your vice without moderation. But when it comes to Bill, the fact people have ruined their lives by gambling away the family assets doesn't mean Bill is unvirtuous for gambling. So why is Bill exempt from the standard he wants legislatively imposed on others? Because he's a hypocrite...
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:28
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Here is the email I sent to Bill O'Reilly who has been attacking Bennett's critics:
One hypocrite defending another hypocrite, the tale of two Bills
To: oreilly@foxnews.com
Bill,
In addition to the idiocy of comparing people who point out William Bennett's hypocrisy with "witchhunters" - people who murdered others based on trumped up charges - you've once again exposed your hypocrisy. You are in the habit of identifying people's hypocrisy, but when someone you like is exposed as a hypocrite, you attack the messengers and defend your sacred cow instead of acknowledging the hypocrisy.
William Bennett advocates punishing people for their "vices", not because they've hurt others, but because some people who share their vices do hurt others (or themselves). So it doesn't matter if William Bennett didn't hurt anyone with his gambling, it only matters that many people who gamble do hurt themselves and others by throwing away their family's assets. If a drug user is complicit in the harm another drug user causes to others, then William Bennett, using his own standard, is complicit in the harm other gamblers cause. Why are you oblivious to this hypocrisy? Oh yeah, because your nose is so far up his rear end you've cut off the circulation to your brain.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:28
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Bennett had my strong respect, he let me down completely. He is not a moral man as far as I'm concerned. There are SO MANY moral, helpful things that he could do with his wealth, but no, he throws it at the casinos.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
Bennett had my strong respect, he let me down completely. He is not a moral man as far as I'm concerned. There are SO MANY moral, helpful things that he could do with his wealth, but no, he throws it at the casinos. |
It's his money. Funny...I didn't take you for the type of person who likes to tell others how they should spend their money.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:28
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When did I do that?
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
When did I do that? |
"There are SO MANY moral, helpful things that he could do with his wealth, but no, he throws it at the casinos."
...and another thing, how do you know he doesn't make generous contributions to charity? Personally, I would be suprised if he didn't.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:28
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Think about it. I said he lost my resect, not that he can't use his money as he chooses.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
Think about it. I said he lost my resect, not that he can't use his money as he chooses. |
Then you went on to say what you think the moral thing for him to do with his money is. It's his money, why shouldn't he have fun with it? Again, I would be very suprised if he didn't generously contribute to charity as well.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:28
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He teaches morality though. He sets himself up as a moral man. To say he's not a moral man is to say he isn't the man he claims to be, to me. If he still works for you, I have no problem with that.
I think it all depends upon your view of gambling. I don't respect the act of gambling large sums away and calling it fun.
Today I took my wife to the dentist. She last went in the Philippines where they could not affort to get novocane. Today there are wondeful happy children there having to go to the dentist without novocane, it hurts them and breaks their parents hearts to see their kids in pain. Bill Bennett lost 8 million dollars gambling. Or one million, or whatever.
It's priorities I guess. I thought his priorities were straight, he set himself up as a guy whose priorities are straight.
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:28
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Caligastia - quote:
This thread is so stupid. |
Why?
quote:
By passing moral judgement on Bill Bennett for gambling you are doing exactly the same thing you complain he does too much in his books etc. |
This thread is about William Bennett, not Sava.
quote:
Funny how the same people who are now saying gambling is morally wrong will defend Bill Clinton to the death for his adultery. |
I never defended Bill Clinton or said gambling was immoral, the point of this thread is to identify William Bennett's hypocrisy. If a certain behavior is wrong because some of us can't use moderation when engaging in the behavior, such as with drugs, porn, non-marital sex, or other "vices", then why is Bennett exempt from that same standard when there are people who cause harm with excessive gambling? Yeah, it's his money, and it's my money if I want to smoke pot or solicit a prostitute. But Bennett wants us put in cages if we do with our money as we see fit. It's called hypocrisy and you're defending a hypocrite.
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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Heck, him betting a million is like me betting a few thousand dollars... Like him, I can afford to lose it, and the entertainment value is worth it.
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Except its an obscene amount of money to gamble which, if he really was such a paragon of virtue, he could have put toward good causes, like Children's Cancer wards, and done a helluva lot of good.
Makes my $20 a week, 5 or 10 cents a pull, gambling habit seem positively virtuous 
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia
Sava: All I can do is 
This thread is so stupid. By passing moral judgement on Bill Bennett for gambling you are doing exactly the same thing you complain he does too much in his books etc.
Funny how the same people who are now saying gambling is morally wrong will defend Bill Clinton to the death for his adultery. |
Oh please. THis thread isn't about proclaiming gambling a moral vice, it's about BENNETT'S HYPOCRISY.
I'm always amazed at the length people will go to in order to defend someone's hypocrisy.
Look, Bennett, unequivocably, heaps out moral criticism on victimless crimes and passionately proclaims that it's the government's duty to regulate morality to prevent what he sees as morally objectionable behavior. That's why he supports laws against drugs, homosexuality, prostitution, etc. But he makes this utterly inexplicable exception for gambling, which he has acknowledged ruins many families and (worse) FUNDS criminal organizations, because he likes to gamble.
That is being a hypocrite, and it is indefensible. I love how anytime a conservative is caught with these things, conservatives scream "Clinton, Clinton, Clinton!" Never mind that Clinton never set himself up as some sort of moralist.
Big ol'
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Oh please. THis thread isn't about proclaiming gambling a moral vice, it's about BENNETT'S HYPOCRISY. |
If gambling is not immoral, in what way is he a hypocrite?
quote:
I'm always amazed at the length people will go to in order to defend someone's hypocrisy.
Look, Bennett, unequivocably, heaps out moral criticism on victimless crimes and passionately proclaims that it's the government's duty to regulate morality to prevent what he sees as morally objectionable behavior. That's why he supports laws against drugs, homosexuality, prostitution, etc. |
...and I disagree with him on those points.
quote:
But he makes this utterly inexplicable exception for gambling, which he has acknowledged ruins many families and (worse) FUNDS criminal organizations, because he likes to gamble. |
So are you saying it's immoral to gamble or not?
quote:
That is being a hypocrite, and it is indefensible. I love how anytime a conservative is caught with these things, conservatives scream "Clinton, Clinton, Clinton!" Never mind that Clinton never set himself up as some sort of moralist.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
He teaches morality though. He sets himself up as a moral man. To say he's not a moral man is to say he isn't the man he claims to be, to me. If he still works for you, I have no problem with that.
I think it all depends upon your view of gambling. I don't respect the act of gambling large sums away and calling it fun. |
As long as he takes care of his family, and tries to help others (which I believe he does), I don't see his gambling as being immoral.
quote:
Today I took my wife to the dentist. She last went in the Philippines where they could not affort to get novocane. Today there are wondeful happy children there having to go to the dentist without novocane, it hurts them and breaks their parents hearts to see their kids in pain. Bill Bennett lost 8 million dollars gambling. Or one million, or whatever.
It's priorities I guess. I thought his priorities were straight, he set himself up as a guy whose priorities are straight. |
Again, you're trying to tell him how he should be spending his money. I disagree with that.
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08-05-2003 02:41
ACK!
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