09-05-2003 04:24									#61
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Caligastia - Why?

Because it's full of moralists criticizing a moralist for doing something that they won't actually come out and say is immoral because their ideology won't allow them to make a judgement and call it moral.

quote: I never defended Bill Clinton or said gambling was immoral, the point of this thread is to identify William Bennett's hypocrisy. If a certain behavior is wrong because some of us can't use moderation when engaging in the behavior, such as with drugs, porn, non-marital sex, or other "vices", then why is Bennett exempt from that same standard when there are people who cause harm with excessive gambling? Yeah, it's his money, and it's my money if I want to smoke pot or solicit a prostitute. But Bennett wants us put in cages if we do with our money as we see fit. It's called hypocrisy and you're defending a hypocrite.

Is it excessive? Considering how much money he makes, I suspect not. If he has preached against gambling in the past, I will call him a hypocrite.

	09-05-2003 04:27									#62
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia If gambling is not immoral, in what way is he a hypocrite?

Because, as stated above, he provides no justification for the ommission of gambling from his list of "sins," since it shares the same qualities as most of the others.

quote: So are you saying it's immoral to gamble or not?

No, I'm not, for the upteenth time, but according to Bennett's moralising, it should be for him. Why isn't it? Because he enjoys it, so he conveniently doesn't think it's immoral. Except now he's promised to stop doing it, which indicated he did think it was immoral yet did it anyway. You don't see that as hypocrisy?

	09-05-2003 04:31									#63
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Because it's full of moralists criticizing a moralist for doing something that they won't actually come out and say is immoral because their ideology won't allow them to make a judgement and call it moral.

What the hell does that mean? Who here is moralizing? Calling someone a hypocrite isn't moralizing, it's pointing out that they are inconsistent in how they act versus what they preach. You must be reading selectively, as we've said, time and again, the issue isn't gambling being immoral, it's Bennett's inconsistency in moralising only about those potentially self-destructive behaviors that he doesn't happen to partake in!

quote: Is it excessive? Considering how much money he makes, I suspect not. If he has preached against gambling in the past, I will call him a hypocrite.

Considering Bennett's moralizing on other vices, such as drug use, have nothing to do with whether or not it is actuall "excessive," but rather on its potential to be harmful, his failure to include gambling is inexplicable.

Did I mention how the money he's lost to gambling has gone into the pockets of people who partake in drug-running, prostitution rings, etc.?

	09-05-2003 04:36									#64
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia If gambling is not immoral, in what way is he a hypocrite?

Bennett's justification for government criminally regulating "morality" is that some people will cause harm to others by acting in excess. This is the chain-smoking, Scotch & water swilling ex-drug czar putting people in the slammer for getting a buzz in a different manner than Bennett approved of.

The rationale behind Bennett's "morality" is that it doesn't matter if you do something he doesn't like and do it in a way that harms nobody - if somebody, somewhere did the same thing to excess in a way that's harmful, then government has an obligation to enforce telling you what you can and can't do with your life.

By Bennett's professed standards, it doesn't matter if his level of gambling losses cause harm - if some dumb **** somewhere gambles away his family's life savings and the money for his daughter's life-saving surgery, then Bennett should also be condemned, because gambling can cause harm to innocent parties. It's the same rationale he's applied to every activity he thinks it's government's God-given business and duty to regulate.

Except, Bennett doesn't apply his standards for everyone else to activities he engages in.
[/QUOTE]

	09-05-2003 04:39									#65
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well duh, I think it's pretty obvious that someone isn't going to call something immoral if they enjoy and partake in it. Find me somewhere he has railed against gambling and I'll call him a hypocrite. Until then, no dice.

I think it's so funny that everyone is so quick to call him a hypocrite, yet they won't stand up and say that they consider his gambling morally objectionable.

	09-05-2003 04:42									#66
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I should point out that I disagree with Bill's stance on many of the issues that have been raised, but unless he spoke against gambling in the past I can't call him a hypocrite.

	09-05-2003 04:46									#67
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok, this is clearly over your head.

How is it NOT hypocritical for him to condemn drug use, loose sex, prostitution, etc., based on the fact that some people partake of them to destructive excess, and yet have no problem with gambling, which many people also partake of to destructive excess? Doesn't it strike you as being rather arbitrary in his definition of sin?

quote: I think it's so funny that everyone is so quick to call him a hypocrite, yet they won't stand up and say that they consider his gambling morally objectionable.

Now you're just being dense, whether on purpose or not. Again: it has nothing to do with whether or not gambling itself is immoral by our standards. Capiche?

	09-05-2003 04:49									#68
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Well duh, I think it's pretty obvious that someone isn't going to call something immoral if they enjoy and partake in it. Find me somewhere he has railed against gambling and I'll call him a hypocrite. Until then, no dice.

The mere fact that I say anything I do is not a vice, and anything you do which I disapprove is a vice, and you should be punished for it, would be enough to make me hypocrite.

quote: [quote] I think it's so funny that everyone is so quick to call him a hypocrite, yet they won't stand up and say that they consider his gambling morally objectionable.

I think it's so funny that you're so obtuse. Bennett's standard for "morally objectionable" is any activity which someone might do to excess to cause harm to others. By Bennett's nebulous standards, some compulsive gamblers should be considered immoral, because they engage in selfish activities which harm others. Taking that basis, by Bennett's standards, all gamblers should be punished to deter the compulsive ones.

	09-05-2003 05:02									#69
	Tired of ads?

To be honest, I know very little about Bill Bennett, except that he is being attacked for gambling - something I don't find morally objectionable - and that he has made his opinions on moral issues public. I would be suprised if he really believes "any activity which someone might do to excess to cause harm to others" is morally wrong for all, because that is idiotic. I'd really like to hear him defend himself on this one.

Only wankers who want to sound intelligent use the word 'obtuse'

	09-05-2003 05:04									#70
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia To be honest, I know very little about Bill Bennett, except that he is being attacked for gambling - something I don't find morally objectionable - and that he has made his opinions on moral issues public. I would be suprised if he really believes "any activity which someone might do to excess to cause harm to others" is morally wrong for all, because that is idiotic. I'd really like to hear him defend himself on this one.

I don't know how many times we can say this:

No one is attacking him over gambling in and of itself. It's about his hypocrisy when it comes to what he decides is and isn't a moral sin.

	09-05-2003 05:09									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: I'd really like to hear him defend himself on this one

that's just it... he condemned his actions saying he's grown... that's blatant hypocrisy. If you can't see that... well @ you

	09-05-2003 05:29									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Sava that's just it... he condemned his actions saying he's grown...

In that case, yes, he was being a hypocrite.

	09-05-2003 05:31									#73
	Put an end to popups!

I now you again Cali!

	09-05-2003 05:38									#75
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Missed ya Cali!

I still find it funny that Bennett has been giving this money, or gambling it away, to people and an industry which is know to be built on drug money... To me this is a big deal, since he was the drug czar.

	09-05-2003 05:42									#76
	Increase Your PM Length

Caligastia -

quote: To be honest, I know very little about Bill Bennett, except that he is being attacked for gambling - something I don't find morally objectionable - and that he has made his opinions on moral issues public.

He isn't being attacked for gambling, he's being criticised for the double standards he employs to "justify" punishing others. And he does more than simply express opinions, he has worked in government to punish people for their "vices" and supports the continued persecution of these people.

quote: I would be suprised if he really believes "any activity which someone might do to excess to cause harm to others" is morally wrong for all, because that is idiotic. I'd really like to hear him defend himself on this one.

Not all activities, just the activities he doesn't like. Btw, that is exactly what he does. Millions of people have been jailed for their "vices", not because they've hurt others, but because SOME of them have hurt others. Recently he campaigned against a Nevada referendum to legalise relatively small amounts of pot and his argument was that there would be more traffic fatalities. That means all the people who don't drive under the influence are being punished because of those who do. An accurate analogy would be to punish everyone who uses alcohol because some alcohol users cause traffic fatalities. I agree, that is idiotic.

quote: Because it's full of moralists criticizing a moralist for doing something that they won't actually come out and say is immoral because their ideology won't allow them to make a judgement and call it moral.

If we don't believe gambling is immoral, why would we say it is?

quote: Is it excessive? Considering how much money he makes, I suspect not.

I didn't say Bennett's gambling was excessive.

quote: If he has preached against gambling in the past, I will call him a hypocrite.

You aren't getting this, his hypocrisy is not gambling. He wants other people put in jail for activities that are not inherently immoral because SOME people who engage in those activities do so to excess and hurt others. But that's true for gambling too...SOME people gamble to excess and hurt others.

	09-05-2003 05:57									#77
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Japher Missed ya Cali!

I don't get to post as much nowdays, my work has a new internet policy in place, and wee wifey needs attention when I'm at home...


Berzerker - Youre too late, I've been assimilated.

	09-05-2003 05:58									#78
	Got spare money?

quote: and wee wifey needs attention when I'm at home...

I understand...

	09-05-2003 06:28									#79
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Ramo Ah, my bad. Didn't see your post.

It's okay. I think we should stop mentioning the Daily Show, and just use their quotes as our own.



ACK!