07-05-2003 20:56									#1
	North Korea will sell nukes (to OBL?) Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

North Korea has informed the Chinese and the US in recent talks that it will sell nukes and nuke technology unless there is a deal.

This is exactly why we went to war against Saddam, wasn't it?

NK's threat transforms a regional dispute into a global threat. Will France, Germany and Russia support us this time?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/nati...07-90177548.htm

	07-05-2003 20:57									#2
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So. Pakistan already did sell the technology. To the North Koreans!

	07-05-2003 20:59									#3
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quote: This is exactly why we went to war against Saddam, wasn't it?

That was one of the "excuses"... or "fabrications" as I like to call it.

But I agree, North Korea is the biggest threat to the US, but instead, we've commited a lot to Iraq because Bush had a hard-on for Saddam.

I still think diplomacy is the best way to deal with NK. We need to work with China to diffuse this ticking time bomb. Military action against NK would be bad.

	07-05-2003 21:02									#4
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"This is exactly why we went to war against Saddam, wasn't it?"

Art thou kidding?

It was just the pretext.

Was it a good pretext, because it got rid of the bad guy? Remains to be seen.

	07-05-2003 21:02									#5
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The North Koreans have been talking about this sort of black mail for a while now. So far they haven't gotten Bush to give them what they want so they're upping the ante.

We need a strong yet measured response to this; the first step should be a UN resolution (yeah, the UN is weak but it makes nice window dressing) condemning the export of Nukes & calling upon member states to enforce the ban. That way we have legal cover for *AHEM* "inspecting" all North Korean ships on the high seas. The Ocean is the only way the Communist North can move it's nukes so we'll just make their lives a little more difficult and see what they do next.

	07-05-2003 21:06									#6
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Oerdin is right. Besides, no powerful country wants the nuclear technology to be spread, so you can expect the UN to back such a resolution whoeheartedly.

Since it is about selling nuclear technology, I doubt any organization except a state will do it, but you can expect many ambitious states to be interested by the offer.

	07-05-2003 21:08									#7
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I agree with the North Korean shipping inspection thing. We no doubt need to back up our position. But this time... we SHOULD exhaust all the options before resorting to military action. A second Korean War would probably leave Seoul in ruins and Tokyo glowing in the dark.

	07-05-2003 21:08									#8
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Yep, sounds like good old blackmailing to me as well. Not the first time in the history of international politics. But when it comes to nuclear weapons technology it's a lot more disturbing that usual.

	07-05-2003 21:12									#9
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Oerdin, I do not disagree. NK might be pursuaded if the entire world, represented by the UN, were to condemn its threat.

But, sadly, we have the recent example of France sabatoging 1441. The NK's will not be convinced that it faces UN "force" unless the French and the Russians are enthusiastically on board any such resolution.

	07-05-2003 21:17									#10
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I don't think France has anything to lose by cooperating, and I'm sure Russia would hate to see more nukes being spread anymore than they are already, notably because Russia has to fear terrorist activity too.

Besides, if this punishment doesn't involve a regime change, I don't see why France would be hostile to it.

	07-05-2003 21:18									#11
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We should get some regime change going in France.

	07-05-2003 21:20									#12
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Ned: Your bashing of the French is not helpful in any way. You should instead treat the French as irrelevant bungholes because they are (the government, not the people). Why give half a sh1t what they do or what they think? Their involvement is not necessary, and by continually referring to them, you are exagerrating their importance.

A NK solution will probably require Russian involvement. The UN is really irrelevant; I think the big players should get together and iron out a solution on their own. I mean, who really gives a flying f*ck about Cameroon, or some other pud-country?

	07-05-2003 21:20									#13
	Re: North Korea will sell nukes (to OBL?) Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ned North Korea has informed the Chinese and the US in recent talks that it will sell nukes and nuke technology unless there is a deal. This is exactly why we went to war against Saddam, wasn't it? NK's threat transforms a regional dispute into a global threat. Will France, Germany and Russia support us this time?

Sure, when is the invasion scheduled for?

	07-05-2003 21:20									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin We should get some regime change going in France.

We need one here first.

	07-05-2003 21:21									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin We should get some regime change going in France.

I wish. Give us a couple more years, and you should have a deal.

	07-05-2003 21:57									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Besides, if this punishment doesn't involve a regime change, I don't see why France would be hostile to it.

Why is France opposed to a regime change in a country that clearly rejects the basic values of republicanism? Shouldn't the US and France be the two strongest supporters of spreading liberty, especially in cases where it's so crystal clear that the dictatorship is oppressing its people?

I thought we at least had something in common.

	07-05-2003 22:00									#17
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quote: Shouldn't the US and France be the two strongest supporters of spreading liberty, especially in cases where it's so crystal clear that the dictatorship is oppressing its people?

Well they should, but they are both hypocrits. France cares more about it's own business deals than the liberation of anyone; and the US, more specifically Bush, cares more about killing his enemies, providing pork to his constituents, and masking the truth about the US aiding Saddam in the first place.

	07-05-2003 22:02									#18
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Felch :
Morally, France should favor a regime change, even if there are moral reasons to oppose a war about it (in an official speech shortly before Gulf War 2, Chirac pretended a regime change in Iraq was "wishable").

But there is no such thing as morals in our government, and it would hate to lose a client. I don't know what **** we are selling to KN, but I guess we are selling some weapons or nasty stuff like that.

	07-05-2003 22:24									#19
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Oh, yes, the French want NK to sell nuclear equipent, I mean, they vetoed 1441 (oh, wait, no, they voted for it.... but disagreed with the US and UK about its meaning.. guess that is a crime againts humanity!)

I am sorry, but the "french" part of this thread is absurd.

As for the othert part: Would NK seel nukes to Al qaeda? Perhaps, if Al Qaeda had that kind of money. nukes ain;t going to be cheap, and my guess is Al qaeda would have problems moving that kind of dough undetected by any state. Most liekly buyers are state actors, just like the current buyers of NK missiles aren't, or have ever been, terrorist, but states.

	07-05-2003 22:32									#20
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quote: I am sorry, but the "french" part of this thread is absurd.

I agree. They are irrelevant, and it's just a diversion from dealing with the real issue.

	07-05-2003 22:44									#21
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I agree with GePap, it's very unlikely that the various Islamic terrorist groups can afford a nuclear device.

	07-05-2003 22:46									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman I agree with GePap, it's very unlikely that the various Islamic terrorist groups can afford a nuclear device.

Don't underestimate their ability to do so. Al-Qaida enjoys the support of the rich Saudi government.

	07-05-2003 22:59									#23
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quote: Don't underestimate their ability to do so. Al-Qaida enjoys the support of the rich Saudi government.

No, it doesn't. Certain individuals in the Saudi government, yes, but not the government itself.

	07-05-2003 23:02									#24
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I think you need to do a little research. Not directly, but the Saudi government creates an environment where Islamic fundamentalism can prosper. I'll quote Bill Maher, "Islamic fundamentalism is like a rotten teenager. They have not dealt with the rotten teenager living in their house, so now, we have to."

	07-05-2003 23:03									#25
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It's quite ironic, the US huge need for oil gives profits to saudis that give it to terrorists that buys nuclear weapons from North Korea.

	07-05-2003 23:09									#26
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quote: Not directly, but the Saudi government creates an environment where Islamic fundamentalism can prosper.

Oh come on, that's hardly support. By the same logic, the US government supported McVeigh, or Israel supports Hamas.

	07-05-2003 23:18									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Oh come on, that's hardly support. By the same logic, the US government supported McVeigh, or Israel supports Hamas.

But, people like McVeigh number in the hundreds... maybe thousands... support for OBL is in the millions in the Arab world. I'm not sure any Israeli support Hamas.. I could be wrong though.

BTW, McVeigh was executed... OBL is getting local support wherever he is.

	07-05-2003 23:19									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman No, it doesn't. Certain individuals in the Saudi government, yes, but not the government itself.

But the government refuses to do anything about these individuals. That's tacit support. These individiuals have given AQ $500 million dollars, even while the War on Terrorism continues. But the Bushies are too tied to Saudi oil to do anything about it, the traitors.

	07-05-2003 23:27									#29
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quote: But the Bushies are too tied to Saudi oil to do anything about it, the traitors.

Yes! I wish certain Americans would stop denying this fact.

	07-05-2003 23:37									#30
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Who says NK has nukes?! well... they do and the US does. The US said Iraq had WMD. Oppps... looks like they dont. Never the less. That's no reason to not invade NK. might as well.