08-05-2003 18:38									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I'm sorry, you've called che a criminal and a pig in the space of two posts. Well, he's called Bush worse. Giving him some of his medicine. -- Oh, and if true, I agree with the Bush proposals. Plato and rah show why the arcaic rules regarded overtime need to be junked, especially for federal employees.

First, Che didn't make an ad hominem insult against someone here, so it's a bit of a difference, isn't it?

Second, having worked for the Federal government, I can attest that overtime rules aren't so cushy. By working overtime, I got comp hours, not pay. Only by working on extremely long projects (being there over 12 hours) could I get pay, and it was very rare that I was able to do that, and managers were extremely stingy about allowing it, even for projects that were in urgent need of it.

But let's just stereotype Federal employees as lazy people who abuse the system, yes...

	08-05-2003 19:31									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Fez practices the vaunted "I'm Rubber, You're Glue" tactic.

	08-05-2003 19:34									#93
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand

That must be that squirrel just before it chased that 10 year old kid up a tree.

	08-05-2003 19:35									#94
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If you aren't going to post on topic...

DON'T POST...

	08-05-2003 21:20									#95
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quote: You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal...

Just had to laugh at that , and Criminal is hardly the worst insult to have thrown at you anyway.

	08-05-2003 21:22									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Ming If you aren't going to post on topic... DON'T POST...

Isnt this the 'Off-Topic' forum

	08-05-2003 21:35									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I'd prefer to live under Franco than live around pigs who think they know what is better, and trying to force so called revolution on others. I prefer to live under a capitalist state, not a communist or socialist one.

Can you explain what do you mean with "pigs who think they know what is better, and trying to force so called revolution on others"? please

I thought you would prefer to live under Franco, and well all we know he was an "hijo de su p* madre" but to call him "pig" it's no very nice...poor pigs

	08-05-2003 22:18									#98
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We don't have OT here in Florida, so all I have are the Federal rules. I'm probably owed about $500 for my last job, and one place I worked owed me about two weeks worth of comp time that I never got (although I did get two weeks severene when they laid me off).

	08-05-2003 23:12									#99
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I've read articles in the past regarding Bush's proposal, but none within the last month or so. Going on memory alone, I'm not sure if his proposals would let (as an example, nothing more) Wal-Mart work its cashiers 50 hours a week, but not pay overtime for any hours over 40. Or if they would have to settle for 10 hours of comp time. Hmm ... if I get time, I'll see what I can dig up in the archives.

Gatekeeper

	08-05-2003 23:17									#100
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Around 10 years ago California loosened up on the OT rules to allow for flex time. Before any hours over 8 in a single day was at 1.5 for nonexempt employees. Now, you get 1.5 only if you work more then 40 hours per week so an employee can work four ten hour days and get a three day weekend.

To bad I'm exempt.

	09-05-2003 00:54									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Around 10 years ago California loosened up on the OT rules to allow for flex time. Before any hours over 8 in a single day was at 1.5 for nonexempt employees. Now, you get 1.5 only if you work more then 40 hours per week so an employee can work four ten hour days and get a three day weekend. To bad I'm exempt.

Ca. laws have been far more stringent than the federal standard. In fact, they were boardering on ridiculous.

I agree on the exempt thing. Why are managers discriminated against by the law???

	09-05-2003 01:10									#102
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while the AFL-CIO might spin something, I really doubt theyd make something like this up out of whole cloth.

And theyre more likely to watch this closely than the mainstream media.

Im sure theyre be arguments for why this is beneficial (some are already here) but I suspect that net-net it will harm most of the non-exempts who get shifted. And will also make it easier for employers to defer hiring new employees.

	09-05-2003 01:46									#103
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On top of this, the Labor Department has changed the rules to allow faith-based Federally-funded labor re-training programs to use sacred literature in their training. Excuse me, but what the hell does the Bible have to do with learning how to operate a fork lift?

	09-05-2003 01:50									#104
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I agree with Lord of the Mark. The AFL-CIO has a political bias, but that does not mean they lied about whe particulars they posted about.

I don't see how forcing workers to work 60 hours a week makes the more productive. my guess is that (as Spiff pointed out in the France and 35hours/week topic) in fact it will lessen overall productivity, sicne workers will burn out faster, call in more sick days.

	09-05-2003 02:00									#105
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quote: Originally posted by jolair Can you explain what do you mean with "pigs who think they know what is better, and trying to force so called revolution on others"? please I thought you would prefer to live under Franco, and well all we know he was an "hijo de su p* madre" but to call him "pig" it's no very nice...poor pigs

Is it me or does this post not make any sense what so ever?

	09-05-2003 04:40									#106
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Let's just say he thinks your an ass preferring to live under Franco

	09-05-2003 04:41									#107
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Fezzie, as to your sig, I'd like to point out that we very much do use inventions by capitalism. Lenin himself once said, "The capitalist will sell us the rope to hang him with."

Frankly, Bush will make more communists than I ever could. I have to give him credit. He's built the left in a way we never could. He's the Manchurian candidate!

	09-05-2003 04:48									#108
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Source would be nice.. sounds kind of..

	09-05-2003 04:49									#109
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Oh yeah there were more pages in this thread than 1.. That'll teach me.

	09-05-2003 05:30									#110
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quote: Second, having worked for the Federal government, I can attest that overtime rules aren't so cushy. By working overtime, I got comp hours, not pay. Only by working on extremely long projects (being there over 12 hours) could I get pay, and it was very rare that I was able to do that, and managers were extremely stingy about allowing it, even for projects that were in urgent need of it.

Boris, you are making my point for me. Managers are extremely stringent in having EVEN when there is urgent need for it and the people WANT to work over 40 hours a week. Especially in federal jobs where it would make sense (like Defense or State during crises). The system is broken.

	09-05-2003 05:34									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Boris, you are making my point for me. Managers are extremely stringent in having EVEN when there is urgent need for it and the people WANT to work over 40 hours a week. Especially in federal jobs where it would make sense (like Defense or State during crises). The system is broken.

Considering how many workers would actually want to put in such overtime without getting paid for it, I don't think this "solution" would make much sense, now would it?

And there's no problem with working over 40 hours a week, usually--but it's paid for with additional leave hours rather than overtime pay (up to a certain point).

	09-05-2003 05:45									#112
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quote: And there's no problem with working over 40 hours a week, usually--but it's paid for with additional leave hours rather than overtime pay

So why the opposition to removing OT pay? They'll just give you additional leave hours.

	09-05-2003 05:46									#113
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The way I see it, the only people that would WANT to work more than 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, are the people who have to work more than that. I'm not going for this workers WANT to work more than 40 hours. All that tells me is that workers don't get paid enough. Having said that, workers should get paid more for overtime.

	09-05-2003 05:49									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And there's no problem with working over 40 hours a week, usually--but it's paid for with additional leave hours rather than overtime pay So why the opposition to removing OT pay? They'll just give you additional leave hours.

Because additional leave hours hardly compares to the additional income overtime pay gets (which many people absolutely need to do things like, oh, send their kids to school), and there's only so much leave you can take and still do your job effectively.

	09-05-2003 05:51									#115
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So what, you are telling me that some people need more money and thus will work over the 40 hour mark to get the time and a half. But, because, of the rules, requiring time and half after 40 hrs, managers aren't scheduling those hours. So therefore, those people who need the money would probably earn more if there was NO overtime.

Hmmm

	09-05-2003 05:55									#116
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Nope, because manager will schedule overtime hours when they are needed to complete projects, but they do tend to err on the side of caution when allowing them. Plenty of government workers do work overtime. That's why I disagree with punishing those workers who put in long hours and earn their overtime pay based on a stereotype that government workers are lazy and abusing the system, garnering unwarranted overtime pay.

	09-05-2003 05:57									#117
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maybe i'm dumb (public school education remember) but I dont understand this issue at all...

exactly what is happening to overtime pay?

	09-05-2003 05:59									#118
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Because so many people have perpetuated a stereotype on this thread that government workers are lazy and abusing the system .

Managers will err on the side of caution, meaning that over 40 hours isn't scheduled too often. I know of people sent home half a day earlier, because they were almost reaching that 40 hours, when they WILLINGLY worked late one day to help some guy get his COBRA notice (or whathaveyou). It seems totally silly, especially when the person wants to work the extra hours so they get more money.

Of course, they can't because they aren't allowed to work more than 40. Just get rid of it, let government employees work how much they wish.

	09-05-2003 06:03									#119
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alright...

so apparently overtime (as in time and a half) for gov't workers has been eradicated due to inefficiency? instead, managers decide if someone should work more than 40 hours or not?

	09-05-2003 06:05									#120
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If time and a half is gotten rid of, so is the 8-hour day. It's the only thing holding manditory OT in check.