09-05-2003 11:50									#1
	CDG War Plan Zen version 1.0 Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

or how I learned to stop worrying and love 3-tile city placement


Well, I was pondering over possible defense plans in the event of a CDG invasion and I have discussed this with other ISDG members in the chat, there's hasn't been much debate though as everyone seems to have a different idea of specifically how to handle a CDG invasion.

This is my idea, based on a 3-tile city placement scheme. Though I am using BigFree's latest city plan, it will work with all others, especially with Trip's and even better if it is combined with NYE's idea for an even more densely packed outer core.

The idea is based on a strong defense coupled with counterattack capability from the safety of each city. The idea is to have the outer cities defended by a small but considerable number of Mercs (say 3-4) and with a mobile reserve of Swordsmen which will move to the city most directly threatened by the approaching stack.

3-tile placement (actually 2 tiles apart as far as my understanding of the term goes) means that no matter where the stack approaches, it will always be within striking distance of any city. It will also mean that any city from the rear is exactly 3 tiles from the border cities, making troop transport a 1 turn issue if roaded.

So, according to this map, the blue circles indicate Swordsmen concentrations. As soon as we know where the Immortal stack comes (i.e. which city they threaten) we move the swordsmen over there. So, let's say there's an 8-10 immortal stack besides any city. Defended by 5 mercs and 4-5 newly arrived swordsmen. The turn we approach we attack with the swordsmen causing say 3 casualties and losing 1. Now they will have 5 mercs or less trying to assault a 5-merc defended city. Not good odds even with immorals and especially if we get the city walled.

Say they switch their axis of attack. Easy, we swing the swordies by road to any other threatened city. Our roads will be BEHIND the front line where they can't be interfered with. Each city is 3 tiles or less from a Swordsman reserve and the swords simply transfer from point to point wherever the threat may arise. Yellow lines on the map are roads.

As you can see, this is a plan for a mobile defense to wear out the attacking stacks piecemeal wherever the axis of attack is. It is very flexible since we can send our counterattack force anywhere we wish in 1 turn. If they are vying for a city taking plan, we smash em when they come, and smash them on the defense when they attack. If they want a pillaging campaign, we still murder them as they advance through our killing zones (TM) . I doubt their stack would survive more than 3 tiles in.

So, comments... please

Legend:
Blue Arrows: tiles our Swordsmen can attack.
Blue Circles: initial Swordsman concentratiosn
Yellow Circles: major Merc concentrations
Yellow Lines: roads
Faded tiles: planned cities (BigFree plan latest)
Red tiles: The Killing Zone (TM) designated as every tile 3-tiles deep from the outermost tiles our swordsman can hit from the cities.

NOTE 1: The circle on the mountain indicates a Merc concentration not a swordsman one. 2-3 would be nice.

NOTE 2: Under this plan I would rather have city 7 on the other side of the river, i.e. at 1 from its planned place as it would give us an extra tile of killing zone (TM).


Credits for von Manstein for their mobile defense of 1943 and Wellington for his defense "boxes" at Waterloo in 1815 from which this plan is based on.

Last edited by Master Zen on 09-05-2003 at 12:16

	09-05-2003 12:14									#2
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How about the map?

Otherwise the plan sounds legit, good job explaining it too.

	09-05-2003 12:20									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I just took it out since it stretched the post window and made it difficult to read the text, so here's the map in a new post:

	09-05-2003 20:10									#4
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do we wanna cut as much jungle around the enemy occupied area or do we wanna keep the jungles? I say cut out as much as we can so that they wont get defensive bonus.

also you do realize that the last swordsmen that finished up the stack will be out open. Maybe CDG will be stupid and rely on 1 stack of doom, but if I was the invader I would diverge that way defenders have hard time freely moving the troops.

Finishing off a stack and leaving one swordmen out in the open is a pretty good deal anyway.. but making roads on the tile would be even more awesome (I realize that is asking tooo much )

EDIT: also there is a hole in the defense. If invader occupies both 4(num key cmd: west) and 47(W, NW) from the #8 city, mobile defense wont be able to move fast enough to retaliate agst both attacks. You need a road connecting #7 and #8 cities directly.

One more: The Mountain 4 of #7 city can be fought for with minimal loss on CDG side if they can comprimise our position with merc concentration by simple diversion. At that point CDG can just hold on tight to the moutainous are denying us ability to regain it and keep reinforcing and piling troops. So I suggest either extending our swordsmen reach by building road on moutain itself or building a road on 4, 1 and 3.

Last edited by Zero on 09-05-2003 at 20:42

	09-05-2003 23:28									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II EDIT: also there is a hole in the defense. If invader occupies both 4(num key cmd: west) and 47(W, NW) from the #8 city, mobile defense wont be able to move fast enough to retaliate agst both attacks. You need a road connecting #7 and #8 cities directly.

I had thought about that and actually the defense is sound. See, the problem with the road is that it would pass through the river making it rather usless as it would not take 1 turn to cross from the #7 and #8 cities. For that reason is that I chose #4 and Bananatopia as the Swordsman garrision as from these 2 cities, both #7 and #8 are reinforcable in 1 turn. And #7 would be under normal cicrucmstances reinforced by Banantopia.

quote: One more: The Mountain 4 of #7 city can be fought for with minimal loss on CDG side if they can comprimise our position with merc concentration by simple diversion. At that point CDG can just hold on tight to the moutainous are denying us ability to regain it and keep reinforcing and piling troops. So I suggest either extending our swordsmen reach by building road on moutain itself or building a road on 4, 1 and 3.

3 Mercs on a Mountain... that is suicide even for an immortal stack. But, that is also the reason why I want city #7 so be 1-tile SW, or to use Trip's plan altogether.

	09-05-2003 23:37									#6
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Just to point out that if we decide to adopt this strategy, we will need to get rid of the "tentative border line" that was negotiated with CDG in the first NAP (and which I noticed our FAM Dept. considers renewing "as was" re: the borderline).

	10-05-2003 00:25									#7
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Just to point out that if we decide to adopt this strategy, we will need to get rid of the "tentative border line" that was negotiated with CDG in the first NAP (and which I noticed our FAM Dept. considers renewing "as was" re: the borderline).

I'm hazy with the details but I believe the borderline was 7 tiles from our capital (NW/SE) in this case all the cities fall within the area. I could be wrong...

	10-05-2003 01:01									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I'm hazy with the details but I believe the borderline was 7 tiles from our capital (NW/SE) in this case all the cities fall within the area. I could be wrong...

Yes, you could.

See the text of the treaty here. No party is allowed to move a settler more than 5 tiles in the diagonal direction towards the other party.

	10-05-2003 01:10									#9
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But city 9 is only 5 tiles in the diagonal direction away from the capital. The other ones are less.

EDIT: oops. Never mind. 9 is 6 tiles away. I was counting the wrong city as the capital.

	10-05-2003 01:17									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm trying to get the guys to change the treaty into 6 tiles or remove it altogether.

BTW, I appreciate the note on this but I would rather we discuss the plan itself and not the CDG treaties which are being discussed as we speak in the Elucidia Thread.

	10-05-2003 02:04									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I had thought about that and actually the defense is sound. See, the problem with the road is that it would pass through the river making it rather usless as it would not take 1 turn to cross from the #7 and #8 cities. For that reason is that I chose #4 and Bananatopia as the Swordsman garrision as from these 2 cities, both #7 and #8 are reinforcable in 1 turn. And #7 would be under normal cicrucmstances reinforced by Banantopia. 3 Mercs on a Mountain... that is suicide even for an immortal stack. But, that is also the reason why I want city #7 so be 1-tile SW, or to use Trip's plan altogether.

1. That just makes #7 and #9 another problem then. (cauase swords in #4 cant do anything.
2.I couldnt see the river. Oh thta sucks
3. We cant spare garrisoning 3 numidian merc permenantly on the mountain. If you meant reinforcing the position just as they come in, You didnt understand what I ws referring to when

	10-05-2003 05:13									#12
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Swords from #4 would reinforce #8. Of course, the majority of the Swordsmen reserve would be in Bananatopia as they would reinforce 2 maybe 3 cities.

I agree about the Mercs garrisoning the mountain would be hard to spare. That is why I would like the city to be 1 tile SW as it would add 1 tile of depth to the killing zone, and make the mountain 2 spaces inside the zone giving us greater counterattack potential.

Anyway, it's hard to get TOO specific on this plan as we are as yet undecided as to the city placement plan we will eventually use. I guess we would have to modify the plan accordingly but I hope the basic "idea" of this plan is discussed because frankly all I've heard is everyone say how our Mercs will beat their Immortals but I've never heard anyone say exactly how we are to do that