15-05-2003 06:35									#31
	Put an end to popups!

Formers as soon as possible, but before that let's get Scout Patrol, and keep it ready for other CPs we build. But I think we should go for Planned ASAP (after Centauri Ecology). The growth bonus does wonders, and the industry bonus is also worthwhile. When we're small, the efficiency doesn't matter much. Plus, it gets us probe teams soon. I think we should focus on PTs if we end up close to the University or any other faction with techs we want. Especially the University. Wonderful targets they are.

	15-05-2003 07:14									#32
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I was asked a question in one of the other forums, so in fairness to all reproduce the answer below:

I actually had to dumb down the AI after my first playtest (I'd given the Angels and the Believers a monolith right beside their three bases - the B's spawned like rabbits while the A's outresearched the UoP and the Borgs for the first ten to fifteen turns (with the 2 monolith energy per base)

So I tinkered with their monoliths - but of course couldn't stop a monolith being pod-popped (well I could have, by checking off the "pods never produce monoliths" box in the Scenario settings, but eventually we'd be left with the pods just producing native life if we deselected everything else !!!)

Also had started them with a crawler on a forest tile per base for the minerals (lurking, so that the dumb AI doesn't use them for exploration - I've seen that quite often), but had to take them away as well.

So they are AI's with developing muscles, but not on steroids .....

G.

	15-05-2003 16:11									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

As some of you may have seen, we now have the save file. I have DLed it, and am looking at it. I will report here ina few minutes. Maniac is also online, so maybe he might want to do the same

	15-05-2003 16:22									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Ok, here is the screenshot of our starting location. I propose that we build a base there, as it looks a good spot, and that we explore north with 1 scout and 1 CP and south with 2 of each.

Please discuss, but be quick. I will in about 4 or 5 hours.


Sorry about the colours, paint seems to do that with AC or AX images

	15-05-2003 16:44									#35
	Put an end to popups!

I'd suggest to let our scouts follow the river course.
Q is: what tile will we work? The monolith (2-2-2) or the moisty nutrient bonus river (3-1-1). Linked to that, when we use the nutrient, our base will grow to size 2 before we finish the CP. So what to build: a scout patrol or a CP? And what if we can't choose Centauri Ecology as our first research project? PlaNets, Biogen, Soc Psych?? I won't be here the next 6 hours, so I can't discuss if Drogue plays in that time.

Edit: Since I won't be here, build scout patrol and work the monolith is my vote. And please don't forget to put "stockpile energy" in the queue!

Edit2: Sudden change of plans. I will be here after all.

Last edited by Maniac on 15-05-2003 at 18:02

	15-05-2003 17:54									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ok, I think we will have Centauri Eco there, as it usually is there for on of the first options. If not, look at the science thread, for what i would choose next.

Why work the monolith? Don't we get 222 whatever's on it? I'd discuss forming once we have poped that pod, to see what's in it. Personally, I favour farming the squares we will put condensers on, to crawl for food, and foresting the ones we will put boreholes on as it's easy, quick terraforming and boreholes will be quite a few turns later.

I would send 1 scout and CP north, hitting the monolith to put it up a morale point, send one directly south, to pop the pod, and one following the river south-west. It's nice to use rivers, but we should pop the pod, and enhance our units IMHO.

Please keep giving ideas.

Last edited by Drogue on 16-05-2003 at 00:42

	15-05-2003 18:01									#37
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

After having checked, we can only choose the following for our first tech: Doctrine: Mobility, Planetary Networks, Industrial Base, Social Psych and Nonlinear Maths. What will we pick? I'd go for PlaNets or SocPsy personally.

Edit: So would you pick IndBase. IMHO there isn't an urgent need for Synthmetal yet. More important seems to me PlaNets (for Planned) and Soc Psych (for a rec commons in our Secret Project base).

Last edited by Maniac on 15-05-2003 at 18:11

	15-05-2003 18:24									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I would go for Ind Base of Plan Nets, because they both get us Ind Auto the quickest. I would wait until after Ind Auto before going for Soc Psych personally, because we want to build formers, a scout and maybe a CP first IIRC, so there is no need for the rec commons yet.

Also, Planned is good, but I usually go for Democracy very close to it, so as not to stifle efficiency. However, with our growth, I think either Ind Base, as synthmetal is good since we will have 3 new bases soon, and scouts cannot defend against much, all it takes is Miriam with a laser rover and we lose a base; or for Plan Net. Rec Commons won't be needed for another 15 turns at least IMHO.

	15-05-2003 18:42									#39
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: I would go for Ind Base of Plan Nets

We both seem to agree on PlaNets then. Should we poll it for the other Consciousness members?

quote: but I usually go for Democracy very close to it

Really? That's an odd strategy. AFAIK it is common tactic among most players to wait with switching to democracy until your expansion phase is almost finished. That way you get to keep the ten free minerals, which are very valuable in the beginning of the game.

quote: so as not to stifle efficiency.

That shouldn't be much of a problem with our faction bonus.

quote: all it takes is Miriam with a laser rover and we lose a base

I doubt we will encounter another faction in the first couple of decades. We're playing on a relatively large map, and I assume Googlie will have spread the factions, so no two factions start close to each other.

	15-05-2003 18:52									#40
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Maniac We both seem to agree on PlaNets then. Should we poll it for the other Consciousness members?

Just posted that on the Science Thread I would say not poll, as I want to be playing it in a couple of hours. If anyone comes online before then then they can give us their opinion. However if Prime and Second Functions agree, then thnat should be enough for now, since we don't have time to do a 2 day poll.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Really? That's an odd strategy. AFAIK it is common tactic among most players to wait with switching to democracy until your expansion phase is almost finished. That way you get to keep the ten free minerals, which are very valuable in the beginning of the game.

Yes, but I usually don't use Planned until then either (I don't research it early). Planned without Demo can lead to much loss of energy, but that is a price worth paying IMHO for the growth, when playign as the CyCon.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac That shouldn't be much of a problem with our faction bonus.

Exactly

quote: Originally posted by Maniac I doubt we will encounter another faction in the first couple of decades. We're playing on a relatively large map, and I assume Googlie will have spread the factions, so no two factions start close to each other.

true, but a rover moves qucikly, Miriam is beefed up, and it isn't a huge map. We could meet inside 20 turns, and we may not have Ind Base by then, if we go Plan Net and Cent Eco.

	15-05-2003 20:26									#41
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Right, I am about to play, as I said I would. Not much will be done.

We will start researching Planetary Networks, we will found one base where it is and start building a scout. 1 scout will pop the pod to the south, 1 will step onto the monolith, and the last will follow the river, as per Maniac's suggestion. 1 pod will follow the river with the scout, another will follow the river north and then move a square to the north. That means we have 1 CP going north, 1 going south, both with a scout as chaperone in case of worms, and one scout exploring and pod popping to the south.

There is nothing major in their, and most of it has been agreed. I have used Maniac's idea with the river, but added in the pod pop, as we have enough scout's to be safe.

	15-05-2003 20:53									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Have played the first turn.

Nothing went ary. Apolyton Prime has been founded, Minerals were found in pod, everything as planned. Have not started to research, as did not come up, and cannot change to it yet, however we have no research points yet. That should mean it comes up next turn, when we choose, and this turns research points are added to it. Apolyton Prime is working the nutrient's, as it does not need mins, sicne it has complete scout patrol already. Will discuss changing to Monolith next turn if necessary.

Screen shots of Capital and Area:



Does anyone know why the colours go like this? Or how to fix it?

	15-05-2003 21:06									#43
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It looks like you are playing with the alternate palette (do the colors look like this in your own game, or just in the save and paste screenshot?)

	15-05-2003 21:18									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Further comment (and I've raised this with others who haven't read Vel's Guide)

I see you left your energy allocation at the default 50:50:0

The inefficiency penalty in the first ten turns or so is miniscule (few bases), and often a change to, say, 30:60:10 can drop the tech research time significantly - as much as from 5 years to 3 - (there is a "law of diminishing returns" where, say, a 20:80:0 split produces a worse result)

(let's say that the penalty is -16% economy and -8% labs; with 2 ec's per turn, 84% is still rounded to 2 and the labpoints gain of 10 or 20% more than offsets the penalty, hence the reduced time to next tech.

Obviously, when the empire is larger, and income is maybe 300 or 400 per turn, with labpoints at the several hundred or thousand level, the penalties are more severe. Of course, future SE choices can reduce - even eliminate - the inefficiency penalties. hence the 0:0:100 split you'll see toewards the endgame)

G.

	15-05-2003 21:23									#45
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I used to have that problem too, but I have forgotten what caused it. Perhaps try to save as jpeg's instead of gif's next time, or try using another graphic program.

Btw, next turn, could you please make a save right before ending the turn? That would make it way easier to discuss actions ahead for the next turn.

Ah yes, from a few posts up:

quote: Why work the monolith? Don't we get 222 whatever's on it? I'd discuss formign once we have poped that pod, to see what's in it. Personally, I fvour farming the aquars we will put condensers on, to crawl for food, and foresting the ones we will put boreholes on as it's easy, quick terraforming and boreholes will be quite a few turns later.

I'm not sure I understand you, but with "working the monolith" I meant putting our first worker on it, not terraforming it somehow. What are aquars btw?

	15-05-2003 21:26									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Googlie: The colours are fine in game, but just come like that when pasted into MS Paint.

When you say 50:50:0 I presume that's 50 Ec, 50 research and 0 psych? I'm just used to the 1st ACDG where it's Ec:Psych:Research.

Allocation was left the same for two reasons:
1 - Because we hadn't discussed it and
2 - Because I think we intend to use the Ecs for rushing formers and rec commons quite soon, to get SPs.
However, not it has been brought up, what do others think? Should we change the energy allocation?

	15-05-2003 21:32									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Maniac I used to have that problem too, but I have forgotten what caused it. Perhaps try to save as jpeg's instead of gif's next time, or try using another graphic program.

I tried that, still the same. I would try it in another program, but I don't have one. Anyone know of a good Windows one I can DL, that's not too bug (56k and all)

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, next turn, could you please make a save right before ending the turn? That would make it way easier to discuss actions ahead for the next turn.

Edit: Sorry, even the game I saved normally gives the tampering message It didn't before I save the Pirates one? I will try to next time.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac I'm not sure I understand you, but with "working the monolith" I meant putting our first worker on it, not terraforming it somehow. What are aquars btw?

Sorry, I thought you mean terraforming. I thought better to leave it with nuts this turn, partly because we don't really need mins until we get formers, and partly because that was what it was on, I didn't want to change it without a couple of people wanting to. Sorry about the typo, aquars=squares. Will edit.

	15-05-2003 21:37									#48
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: partly because we don't really need mins until we get formers

Why not? If I saw it correctly when I checked this noon, we won't be able to research CentEco right away, so probably more than a decade will pass before we have formers.

	15-05-2003 21:47									#49
	Support Apolyton

Well, they would be useful, but I thought the nuts was more important, since I presume we will be building a CP next, and need to grow first. However, I am undecided as to which is best, but I had not heard another opinion to change it yet. Let's discuss it.

What do others think? 3-1-1 or 2-2-2?

	15-05-2003 22:02									#50
	Tired of ads?

quote: When you say 50:50:0 I presume that's 50 Ec, 50 research and 0 psych?

Correct - I usually use that notation too (50/0/50), but in this instance just followed the on-screen order for convenience

G.

(btw, now that the game save has been sent on, you can re-play the turn and experiment with different settings, etc - it doesn't matter now that the official turn has gone onwards - a bit of a cheat, though, if you use a replay to scout where other factions' units are, etc, so it's the honor system - self policing)

	15-05-2003 23:30									#51
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Googlie btw, now that the game save has been sent on, you can re-play the turn and experiment with different settings, etc - it doesn't matter now that the official turn has gone onwards - a bit of a cheat, though, if you use a replay to scout where other factions' units are, etc, so it's the honor system - self policing

Ahh, very true. In that case, I will post the file. Since we cannot post attachment's here, I can post in in the Cybernetic News Service thread, if you wish, since it is still passworded.

What should I do?

	16-05-2003 00:18									#52
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

*shrugs* Post it in that thread, or upload it and link to it here. Both possibilities are fine with me.

	16-05-2003 00:29									#53
	Put an end to popups!

Ok, I hope this works. Here is the file, I hope it's the right one. If not, tell me, and I'll post the other one, as both the one Archaic posted, and the one I made, have the same name.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Drogue/Cyborgs2102.zip

	17-05-2003 21:06									#54
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The game will shortly be restarted from 2102

To deal with several issues, the game will be restarted (same start positions) with a new password. Before posting this in a thread in this forum, I'm awaiting MarkG's confirmation that General Tacitus (who currently is listed as a co-Moderator of these private forums) will be blocked from all but the Uni (he's a member of that team)

The replay shouldn't take long - I'll be checking to ensure that moves are identical (subject to a possibly different podpop result)

G.

	17-05-2003 23:11									#55
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi everyone, good to see the familiar faces again, and nice to see some new ones

Thanks for all your efforts, Googlie, this looks like it will be quite a blast when everything gets rolling

As for the posting of SMAC/X screenies, I follow this procedure to ensure the proper palette is used in the image:

1. In the game, position the screen as you want and hit print screen.
2. With the game still running, open your image program (I just use paint that comes with windows).
3. Paste the image into the image program.
4. Save the image as whatever (at this step it's a bmp, the way I do it, I'm not sure what happens if you save as another format).
5. Close the image program.
6. Close the game.
7. Open the image program and open the image.
8. Do whatever editing you need, including conversion to jpg or whatnot, and save it.
9. attach or upload or whatever the image as usual.

	17-05-2003 23:40									#56
	Suffering from ads?

Thank's Cedayon, I will try that next time

	18-05-2003 04:21									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Drogue:

I played the Uni's turn

The CyCon's 2102 restart turn is on the general turn reporting thread

(How does one add attachments to these private forums?)

G.

	18-05-2003 04:24									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: (How does one add attachments to these private forums?)

It's impossible. All you could do, is upload them and then link to them here.

	18-05-2003 04:52									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ah - I see

(I also see that GeneralTacitus is still listed as a co-Moderator of all these private forums - my guess is it'll prolly be after the weekend before MarkG gets back to us on that.

Of course Archaic could just e-mail the new password to everyone and then it can be business as usual)

G.

	18-05-2003 06:36									#60
	Got spare money?

Have sent to Herc via email.

Googlie: I did exactly the same key presses, but the move where the CP moves north east one square from Apolyton Prime, I tried to move it north again, because of the river, it only took 1/3 of a turn, and it failed. However, on doing it this time, exactly the same key presses, it did it. I know it is a random thing, whether it does it or not, thus I trust it is like the pod popping, where we just accept whatever is in it? Just to check, because when you chceck the save, even though I did exactly the same key presses (I tried to do that move the first time, and it failed) the CP is another square further north.

BTW everyone, instead of Mineral Resources from the pod, we got a monolith. Maybe not as good, although for the early game, two monoliths isn't bad