14-05-2003 12:31									#1
	Hive Strategy Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

OK - We want to win this game, or at least make a good showing, so... who has some kind of general "good tactics" for te Hive. I'll kick off.

• SE choices - Police State, Planned, Power(if at war) or Wealth (if at peace) - I think that's a given for the Hive.
  
• We're playing on Trancend = lots of Drones. We'll need to take advatage of our high support to put the maximum numbers of free cheap police units in place. With the Perimiter def. we won't have to worry about attacks for some time.
  
• High support = lots of formers. We should get the tech and start on formers ASAP.
  
• Early game - we should only be building formers, scout patrols and colony pods - we can really get big fast, and then start on building the base improvements.
  
• We have to get agressive at some point. If we let the builders get big, we've had it.
  
• The Pirates are in game = we have to get some sea bases and a navy built. Sometimes these can be neglected, but not today folks.
  
• POD POPPING... lets get out there.
  
• Research - Formers - Crawlers - Missilelaunchers - Air Power - Attack! Or do we want to go with a recon rover rush? (not serious)
  
• Allies - we have no natural enemies out there - we should be friends with everyone against the strongest faction - if ata all possible - so don't antagonise people too much in the open forums... Unless you have to
  
• Planet Busters and Gas are serious options. We are the Hive, after all.
  

	14-05-2003 12:44									#2
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Agree with everything states, we need to be aggressive but not to the point of turning all the other factions are against us. If we’re located on the same landmass as another faction (be it human or AI) attack early and attack fast, especially if we’re talking either the University or Consciousness here. They have us on tech, and if we allow them to get too powerful we’re screwed.

Comrade War of Art is right when he says we have no natural enemies, but we also do not have any natural friends. Be opportunistic, we will take advantages of the weaknesses of the other factions; war is a tool, let us use it correctly.

On a slightly more personal note, I consider the University to be our greatest threat; not only due to their tremendous research capabilities, but also because they are being lead by Archaic, suffice it to say he’s not the most “communist friends” person in the world, plus he’s damn good with the University. The other factions I do not perceive to be as great a threat given that they are either left leaning and non-militaristic, or IMO won’t get in our direct way. The Consciousness theoretically makes for the best ally with the University, but they can also be made bitter enemies, we need to exploit this. The Pirates, though formidable on the seas, shouldn’t provide too great of a threat early on, we need to be on guard but let us take care of the land dwellers first.

That’s my two cents on the general strategy we should be employing.

Oh and one last thing, we do not want to make it appear as though we’re militarizing, keep things friendly (when possible) with the other factions. Remember any of our troop movements are simply “routine exercises, nothing at all to be alarmed about”.

-Chairman Voltaire

	14-05-2003 12:50									#3
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That´s a very good overview!
I completely agree especially with the gas and planet buster thingie!

(post altered for security reasons )

	14-05-2003 13:11									#4
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We are talking on a secure channel here aren't we?

On the subject of allies, we should get on OK with the Drones. I bet Googlie's put them on the other side of the Planet, though....

Maybe because of Archaic we can form a world alliance against the University. That boy is a genius at getting people angry...

I agree with the Chairman, the University are definitly the ones to watch. We should be probing/infilterating/killing them as soon as possible. We should make them "share" their technology with us at every oportunity - i.e. they MUST NOT get the HSA under any circumstances. If they do, then we have to PB that base, but best of all we should sabotage the construction repeatedly hehehehe

-Jam

	14-05-2003 14:14									#5
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quote: Originally posted by War of Art We are talking on a secure channel here aren't we?

Well, as long as the State Security (StaSec) is not put in place yet, we cannot guarantee that no evil spies of the capitalist running dogs eavesdrop on our meetings...
Plus: One man is rational. Hundrets are very vulnerable to demagogues. But tenthousands are the most unpredictable source of danger you can imagine. They are better be contained protected from themselves, so no "unformatted" quotes of our meetings should ever leave this room...

quote: Originally posted by War of Art On the subject of allies, we should get on OK with the Drones. I bet Googlie's put them on the other side of the Planet, though....

evil evil Googlie

quote: Originally posted by War of Art Maybe because of Archaic we can form a world alliance against the University. That boy is a genius at getting people angry... I agree with the Chairman, the University are definitly the ones to watch. We should be probing/infilterating/killing them as soon as possible. We should make them "share" their technology with us at every oportunity - i.e. they MUST NOT get the HSA under any circumstances. If they do, then we have to PB that base, but best of all we should sabotage the construction repeatedly hehehehe

Nothing to add. Perhaps we could send them some of our superior engineers to "help" them build their empire...

	14-05-2003 14:23									#6
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Remember Googlie has the password to access all secret Hive meetings.

-Jam

	14-05-2003 14:24									#7
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Hey, post here count towards Post Count.

Let the spam commence !

(ummm - I didn't say that)

	14-05-2003 18:54									#8
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While we’re on the topic of not allowing the University to get the HSA under any circumstances, the question of our terraforming policy popped into mind. Do we go the Planet friendly forest route and then bleed it dry for every possible mineral we can when we get crawlers allowing for most of our bases to be super industrial. Or something more balanced? I would suggest that we plant forests on every square outside the base radius, until get boreholes, and crawl the minerals from them to our cities; as for the base radius policy, perhaps forests on every square that wouldn’t make that great of a farm, so anything non-rainy we put a forest on, something to that effect.

	14-05-2003 19:29									#9
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For general base policy this sounds OK. On rocky squares we should road + mine, and we should think about some forest inside the base radius so we can get a good mix of minerals, food and energy. With treefarms and Hforest, then I like to forest everything, with a few boreholes and mines where the trees won't grow.

-Jam

	14-05-2003 19:33									#10
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Sounds good, especially that forest-otside-base-radius proposal. But isn´t a farm on (2000m, rolling, moist) terrain combined with solar collectors better than forest? And it´s not rainy terrain!

BTW: Could someone please explain the meanings of the project abbreviations you use. I don´t possess SMAX and my SMAC is a German version, so I can´t just figure them out that easy...

	14-05-2003 19:36									#11
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HSA is Hunter-Seeker-Algorithm (stops Probe teams)
HForest is Hybrid Forest (improves econ and forest output)

I got the UK version deliverd from Amazon.co.uk, whick was well worth it. I have the German version of CtP2, and that causes some confusion with the abbreviations too.

-Jam

	14-05-2003 19:50									#12
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Thanks! And what does "PB that base" mean? Probe ...?

	14-05-2003 20:08									#13
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PLANET BUSTER!!!

Everyone likes that

-Jam

	14-05-2003 23:04									#14
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Id personally would like to concentrate on expanding and builidng up troops. Claiming territory and making sure no one get bully us (and instead maybe we can be on the aggressive side) is top priority IMO.

	14-05-2003 23:14									#15
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We should build as fast as possible to the efficency limit (12 bases on Trancsend?) and then start on the troops, or did you mean starting a millitary as soon as we can get the lasers??

-Jam

	14-05-2003 23:18									#16
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quote: Originally posted by War of Art We should build as fast as possible to the efficency limit (12 bases on Trancsend?) and then start on the troops, or did you mean starting a millitary as soon as we can get the lasers?? -Jam

Hold of on military production until we expand if we’re on the continent by ourselves. If not, get the military out ASAP.

Just a note about expansion, personally I am of the school that we should be getting every new base to produce at least 2 colony pods before anything else, even 3 though I think that’s pushing it. The trick it to reach a balance between continuous expansion and infrastructure/military production.

	14-05-2003 23:21									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We'll have to allow the bases to grow a bit before they can produce pods. I reccommend Scout Patrols and Formers (when we get the tech) We can upgrade the Scouts later, or just use them as police. Also we'll hit the inefficency extra drones pretty fast on Trancend level.

-Jam

	16-05-2003 01:16									#18
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We were discussing terraforming policy earlier, and it seems that the majority of the PAC membership agrees with the forests outside base radius proposal (save for rocky areas, and where we put boreholes, etc.).

As for inside the base radius would someone please post the most efficient uses for each of the tile types so that we may determine in which tiles we should plant forests, and in which to cultivate farms.

-Chairman Voltaire

	16-05-2003 01:54									#19
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With Hybrid forest & Tree farms, forest every square we can, with mine+road on the other squares. Simple. Without, its a bit more complicated...

Forest gives 3-3-2 with the improvements in place, 3-3-3 with a river, IIRC, and we won't get better than that. Oh, but we should put a condenser and a farm on any nutriant bonuses.

-Jam

	16-05-2003 03:11									#20
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I am afraid I probably would not be adding much to the strategy. But what you have discussed, I am listening keenly, and learning little things.

	16-05-2003 03:20									#21
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quote: Originally posted by War of Art With Hybrid forest & Tree farms, forest every square we can, with mine+road on the other squares. Simple. Without, its a bit more complicated... Forest gives 3-3-2 with the improvements in place, 3-3-3 with a river, IIRC, and we won't get better than that. Oh, but we should put a condenser and a farm on any nutriant bonuses. -Jam

That is logical, and from this moment onward that will be the official general Hive terraforming policy (to be implemented as soon as we get formers).

On another note, we also need to discuss our research path, and what technology to research first.

-Chairman Voltaire

	16-05-2003 03:33									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Voltaire Hold of on military production until we expand if we’re on the continent by ourselves. If not, get the military out ASAP. Just a note about expansion, personally I am of the school that we should be getting every new base to produce at least 2 colony pods before anything else, even 3 though I think that’s pushing it. The trick it to reach a balance between continuous expansion and infrastructure/military production.

you graduated fomr the same school then i guess.

	16-05-2003 03:57									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Voltaire

Hold of on military production until we expand if weÂ’re on the continent by ourselves. If not, get the military out ASAP.
QUOTE]

This is a good idea. If there is another faction on our continent it is wise to be rid of them now so that we avoid a long and drawn out conflict later in the game as they would be busy building colony pods and formers; not military units.

On the topic of military units; Planet Busters are not practical for general warfare. Their primary purpose should be deterence (when you attack with them you destroy the land, making it useless for our expansion). Nerve gas on the other hand is my buddy. It should be on ALL of our units that can take it as it provides a very useful edge in combat when one finds oneself in a sticky situation (not for use on everything, ppl get pissed). More specifically, when we do start building a military, push the police to the max with infantry (as stated before), but also maintain a fairly sizeable mechanized division at all times to respond to sudden attack (move around and behind the attacking units and drive into their territory, they will be forced to retreat to save their cities, giving us time to mobilize and launch a full sustained assualt).

	16-05-2003 10:16									#24
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A couple of thoughts to ponder (from Vel's Strategy Guide):

Consider building a sensor array on any tile before you found a base on it - that 50% defense bonus gets multiplied by all the perim defs, etc etc (it does slow down expansion a tad, as it usually takes 3 to 4 turns to build the array, but especially valuable in coastal bases) - and it can't be used by attacking forces as an open-site sensor array can

Build a PlanetBuster as soon as you can - every advanced weapon therafter comes already prototyped

For anyone who hasn't got a copy of Vel's Guide, here's the link to his website where an early version resides:

http://renaissanceforums.community....6&view=standard

G.

Last edited by Googlie on 16-05-2003 at 10:53

	16-05-2003 11:05									#25
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For some reason I cannot access the link due to:

While trying to retrieve the URL: http://renaissanceforums.community....ipts/thread.pl?

The following error was encountered:

Zero Sized Reply

	16-05-2003 11:30									#26
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trying again:

http://renaissanceforums.community....6&view=standard

(seems to work this time)

G.

Last edited by Googlie on 16-05-2003 at 11:41

	16-05-2003 12:14									#27
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Back to terraforming... the forests everywhere approach needs at least the treefarms in place before it starts really working well. This should be an early research target IMHO. This basically means avoiding all the red techs early game, also we won't need social psych, or any of the "doctrine" or "progenitor" techs. It doesn't fit so well to being aggressive in the early game.

Discuss.

-Jam

	16-05-2003 12:49									#28
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quote: Originally posted by War of Art Back to terraforming... the forests everywhere approach needs at least the treefarms in place before it starts really working well. This should be an early research target IMHO. This basically means avoiding all the red techs early game, also we won't need social psych, or any of the "doctrine" or "progenitor" techs. It doesn't fit so well to being aggressive in the early game. Discuss. -Jam

If we're on a landmass by ourselves this shouldn't be too much of a problem since there would be no need for early conflict. I guess we will have to wait and see before we finalize any plans.

Alternatively, if we do encounter another faction on the same continent we are on taking them out should take precedence over anything else.

Though I'm torn as to which would be the best circumstance for our faction. On the one hand, if we're isolated it allows us to exploit the full potential of the Hives' industrial strength. On the other hand, early conflict would give us an overwhelming advantage given that none of the other factions (save for the Believers) would have had the chance to fully take advantage of their benefits.

-Voltaire

	16-05-2003 13:02									#29
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Well, we're on a standard size map, so we won't have tooo much space to play with (prays to find the Monsoon Jungle over the hill)

-Jam

	16-05-2003 13:06									#30
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Damn, I keep forgetting we're playing on a standard map. So used to playing on huge I've almost forgotten there are smaller maps.

Which begs the question, how soon do we invade anyone? We can't wait too long, but wars have seldom been won with stupid haste.

-Chairman Voltaire