16-05-2003 15:21									#31
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*off topic* okay, i just watched donnie darko, and i have no clue. at all. Can anyone take a few moments to explain.........

	17-05-2003 02:53									#32
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it was worth the ticket price--however, a lot of it i found too excessive.

bad:
--the dance/sex scene (lifted from dune) i thought was far too long and grotesque (those matrix knobs? NOT SEXY!).
--entering zion, you see those mech/power walkers? when one uses cg, i want to be fooled--even for an instant. those mechs were so poorly done--light was kinda all funky, too reflective; and the gun twirl was far too excessive and not cool at all.
--excessive reuse of trinity's blowing up the guard post good and falling out the window.
--excessive use of laurence fishburne to deliver shoddy dialogue (which nobody listened to, i'm sure) to make it sound good.
--some of the combat scenes (seraph v. neo) weren't as wow as i'd wanted them to be. that one in particular had nothing physics-defying.
--the cake... and its result. that was excessive.
--the tie-in to a kid's story.
--"good night, zion"... ("good night, moon... good night stars... good night little boy, with a balloon")
--the nambla moment with neo and the councillor.
--the trailer spoiling every good moment the twins had.

good:
on the other hand, there were a lot of cool things in it.
--elro--agent smith is soooo funny/cool.
--the architect scene, when the background and neo diverge
--the sentinels have learned...
--the tie-in to the final flight of the osiris.
--the keymaker.
--seraph.
--the twins themselves.
--excessive explosions.
--the highway.

yes, well worth the time and money.

	17-05-2003 08:24									#33
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Question: Is the Oracle an ally, an enemy, or both?

	17-05-2003 08:35									#34
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Spoiler warning now. Consider yourself warned.

***

The Oracle is a program... just part of the Matrix, with a "purpose" just like every other part.

Some people thought that the philosophy stuff was pretty shoddy in this one, but I was impressed for the most part. The whole "everyone has their purpose" might have been overdone a bit, but it's something to think about. The scene with the Architect was good also, and the fight scenes were awesome.

As for the movie as a whole, I generally agree with SnowFire/korn... half the movie you're watching excitedly (I'll never forget the time Neo pelted that Agent Smith with the pole and the whole theater audence went "ooooo!") but the other half you're like "uhhh, this is the Matrix? (What was with the sex scene, the big uncontrolled orgy/rave/thing and the little talk between the counsel and Neo?).

Other people I've talked to were upset about a few things (e.g. what Agent Smith was up to), but I think that's more of a problem with them making the 2nd and 3rd movies so connected, and there are many things yet to be revealed.

Overall, 8.5/10, about the same as the first movie, but more polarized (some cooler moments, and some other moments which are just lame balance out to about the same coolness).

	17-05-2003 08:39									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Trip The Oracle is a program... just part of the Matrix, with a "purpose" just like every other part.

Does that purpose make "it" an impediment to Neo's quest or what?

	17-05-2003 08:40									#36
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this one, you could make a drinking game out of the words "destiny" or "causality".
it's your choice which one you pick.

	17-05-2003 08:45									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Some people thought that the philosophy stuff was pretty shoddy in this one, but I was impressed for the most part. The whole "everyone has their purpose" might have been overdone a bit, but it's something to think about.

The philosophy in this one was excellent. The whole control thing (with zion ultimately merely the other side of the equation of the matrix) was brilliant and most unexpected.

As for Zion, well, looks good to me.

	17-05-2003 08:51									#38
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Another spoiler alert.

***

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Does that purpose make "it" an impediment to Neo's quest or what?

I don't think so. I think it's simply there to "guide" Neo in his path and help him understand what he's doing. As the Oracle mentions, she is only there to help him understand the choices he's already made. Neo realizes that his dream about Trinity will come true, and he has to grapple with that fact for most of the movie.

	17-05-2003 08:53									#39
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More spoilers.

***

quote: Originally posted by The Templar The philosophy in this one was excellent. The whole control thing (with zion ultimately merely the other side of the equation of the matrix) was brilliant and most unexpected. As for Zion, well, looks good to me.

My roommate thought the ending was very predictable, but I think that's just because he's upset whenever a movie doesn't end with everyone dead.

The fact that everything is simply a "Matrix within a Matrix" was a pretty interesting twist, and makes up for the sex scene...
It makes you wonder how things will end... Why should Neo fight? It's not real, and the humans will lose anyways. After six times, the "machines have gotten good at destroying Zion." Why have a Zion at all if the machines are really in charge? Is there a real Zion? Is anything we've seen real? Is there anything real at all?

Good stuff.

Just get rid of the orgy.

	17-05-2003 09:18									#40
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I saw it wednesday at 10:00 PM. I thought it was insanely awesome, equal to the first, tho my friends i went with had mixed thoughts. They kept trying to point out plot holes and suff, but it boiled down to they didnt understand the damn thing. Others thought the fight scenes were dragged out too long (can you believ that!?) So, it is definately mediocre, despite ne's taste, but if you like those kind of movies, then it is the best one to come ot in a LONG time

	17-05-2003 09:21									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Trip It makes you wonder how things will end... Why should Neo fight? It's not real, and the humans will lose anyways. After six times, the "machines have gotten good at destroying Zion." Why have a Zion at all if the machines are really in charge? Is there a real Zion? Is anything we've seen real? Is there anything real at all?

We had damn well better have seen something real. I loathe stories where everything is a dream.

	17-05-2003 09:21									#42
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The fight with the Merovingian's cronies was pretty good, and the fight with the Smiths was classic. I thought both played out very realistically (heaven forbid Neo ever get hit with an attack). I read that the Smith fight took 27 days to shoot.

	17-05-2003 09:22									#43
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc We had damn well better have seen something real. I loathe stories where everything is a dream.

Ever seen Vanilla Sky?

	17-05-2003 09:22									#44
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Well I think as long as you go in not expecting it to be just like the original, you'll be pretty well off.

	17-05-2003 09:25									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Ever seen Vanilla Sky?

No and I just told you why.

	17-05-2003 09:25									#46
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quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda Well I think as long as you go in not expecting it to be just like the original, you'll be pretty well off.

I think that's why most of the critics are giving the movie less-than-great reviews. A common complaint is "the first movie was groundbreaking, but this one is just more of the same." As you pointed out, if you go into the theater expecting something just as "groundbreaking" then you'll be disappointed. Yes, they've got a bigger budget, longer fight scenes, cooler special effects and all that, but it's still the same guys working on the same story. As I said earlier, I find both are equally good.

	17-05-2003 09:26									#47
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc No and I just told you why.

Well, I'm never one to want to find out about a movie before I see it. Ruins the experience.

	17-05-2003 09:48									#48
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what was Smith up to?


my opinions, The Matrix was better than Reloaded.
2 just lacked everything 1 had
- no real suspense
- not much a sense discovery, or sense of story as with the our way or highway scene of the first, the white rabbit and all the revelations afterwards
- not much of a story at all; there was no plot until neo met the Oracle and the agents and smith story was plotless as they just showed up to fight with no other reason... (yeah yeah, hunting down the rebels)
- the neo/trinity relationship sucked; it was simply a kiss, have sex whenever they could with no chemistry or emotion or anything else to it,
- too much forced humor, nothign natural as with Mouse in the first one; Link sucked as he tried to be funny instead of being real and letting it come
- the soundtrack sucked, the music didn't go along with the action and didn't compare to the suspenseful sound of the first movie
- NONE of the fight scenes match up to those of the first movie, none. Seriph's doesn't match up to the Morpheus/Neo showdown, Trinity's fight/chase wasn't beaten, and the burly brawl still doesn't beat the first showdown of Smith and Neo (the It is inevitable line was cheesy, recycling doesn't work in movies)
That was fighting, better effects, moves and melee.
i was also disappointed Neo didn't move as fast as he did like in the first movie... even Before he was the one
(with Morpheus) instead, he fought almost just like everyone else. and he didn't kill any agents... wasn't that one of his purposes as the One (well, so Morpheus led us to believe from 1)
Oh yeah, of all the fight scenes, NONE match Neo's and Trinity's rescue of Morpheus, from the hallway shootout to the elevator and roof, to the helicopter escape... nothing is that spectacular... not the burly brawl, not the freeway chase...
-the pseudo-philosophy this time was thrown in and meant nothing to the overall movie... in fact, the movie seemed to be seperated as Action and then Dialogue...
(then again, they did shoot the first nine months of only action, and did the dialogue after)
- Niobe's role, didn't add anything to the movie...
- too much CG, it was cool, but to noticeable...

i could go on.. but what the heck...
it was a good movie, but it doesn't live up to the first.

The Matrix

Reloaded

Last edited by altF18 on 17-05-2003 at 09:54

	17-05-2003 09:53									#49
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Smith was/is "trying to find his purpose." Everyone Neo comes across is changed in some way (which they hint at), and Smith's role won't be fully revealed until Revolutions (in the trailer it says "if you don't defeat him now then everything will be destroyed" or something to that effect).

I think the biggest problem the movie had was bits and parts which didn't seem to fit. There were a lot of times when you would be asking yourself "why is this scene or that scene in this movie?"

	17-05-2003 10:11									#50
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Ive agreed with trip on about everything so far

	17-05-2003 10:13									#51
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sam quality story, more budget.

I thought 1st was okay, bit disappointed at what I got, but nonetheless happy with what I got. I could say the same with the sequel.

I didnt like the whole extreme vagueness of the story. Some may say leaving things unanswered would make it better, but I couldnt buy into the whole meaningless empty words that meant nothing. They overplay with cryptic messages that leads to nowhere.

And they crammed the whole story plot mostly in one scene! (architect part) and I felt that they were trying to over complicate things to a point so that they intentionally make you not understand and leave you in awe in some dumb founded confused way ("I have no idea what what he just said but wow, that sounds impotant" sort of way) I mean I couldnt even catch up with the guys lips because he was talking so fast. If he needed to talk so fast because they needed to cut down on hours, they could have done so in some repetitive action scenes.

Anyways, I dont wanna sound like im ranting. I watched it for entertainment anyways. Its nothign more than a typical comic book story plot with a big budget if you ask me. But I know there's just gonna be die hard fans thats gonna disagree with me. Judging by how so many websites sprung up about how Matrix 1 was so profound, it had reference to alice in wonderland (and tie it up in most absurd way cause there was some direct reference )... whatever.


Defintely worth nine bucks. But Im afraid if you wanna understand it you're gonna have to watch it again. Because the architect scene went so fast. Maybe its just me.. I was getting tired by the end of the movie (cuaght the last show)...

	17-05-2003 10:20									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Zero And they crammed the whole story plot mostly in one scene! (architect part) and I felt that they were trying to over complicate things to a point so that they intentionally make you not understand and leave you in awe in some dumb founded confused way

That's somewhat due to the fact that they essentially cut the movie in half and called the second part Revolutions.

	17-05-2003 10:30									#53
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc That's somewhat due to the fact that they essentially cut the movie in half and called the second part Revolutions.

thats another thing. I know all I ve been doing is complaing, but I did like alot of things, but Im sure I wont have to touch upon those stuff (plenty of ppl will mention it anyway ), so I'll just help the bad points.

Im not liking the whole mentality of "everything has to be a series" thing. Sure having sequels and prequels is okay by me, but they didnt even try to make this one into a "movie" it justs ends with a To be concluded. Bah, Movies should be at least somwhat individually independent. It would suck if video game just ended with "To be concluded" wouldnt it? (im afriad .Hack might be... I heard it wasnt good so I wont try it) But thats my opinion and maybe I shouldnt impose that on the whole world. (Im just ranting)

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much You'll know later stuff. Ugh couldnt take it. Especially because Im afraid all thoe "you'll know later" will become "You'll never know and your just gonna have to sit there looking dumb and say wow they didnt explain jack to me but that was cool".

maybe six years ago, before I watched Neon Genesis Evangelion (Which is king of WTF element and extreme vague story plot) I would have bought it much more well. But now its almost becoming a cliche. As in its being done to death.

oh well.

	17-05-2003 11:51									#54
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I gotta say I liked the weirdness of the programs without purpose. At first I thought it was goofy but I got into it, it began to take on the appearance of a fairytale going along with the whole down the rabbithole theme.

As for the action scenes, well I could almost sleep through em. Not because they weren't done well but I think all the movies I've been seeing have been desenitizing me to them and there are so many in this movie, they last so long and arms, legs and weapons are flailing so fast that my eyes just glaze over. Whats funny is they focus so much on fluid graceful motion that most of the hits landed seem weak making you wonder how they could possibly send a person flying across a room. I get so bored during some of these fights I actually found myself wishing I could see alot more blood, guts and cracking bones as it would have been a little more gratifying.

Did anyone think the first fight with the Smith program/programs had a really goofy soundtrack? It just didn't seem to fit.

	17-05-2003 11:57									#55
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ah yes, Neo didn't even move like he did before he was the One in his fight with Morpheus in the first movie, or go as fast as when he was deflecting Agent Smith's blows after his resurrection.
Instead it was slow fluid fighting... so much for the One.

and yes, the entire soundtrack throughout the movie was lame. nothing like the suspenseful and intriguing first.

	17-05-2003 12:12									#56
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i thought the fight scenes were as good as it can get for an amateur martial artists. (Do keep in mind, Laurence fishburne and keanu reeves are not bruce lee... some arent even mainly action hero stars like bruce willis and arney )

	17-05-2003 12:13									#57
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I'm waiting for my download to complete in... eh... 15 hours.

	17-05-2003 21:59									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I can't be arsed to deal with the crowd. I'll see it in a few weeks.

I had reserved a ticket for yesterday evening... But when I went to get my ticket in the afternoon I decided to watch it right then instead. The theatre was almost empty.

Great movie!
I loved how this movie basically shows the first movie to be nothing more than a single page in the book (even if it is an important one).

quote: i was also disappointed Neo didn't move as fast as he did like in the first movie... even Before he was the one

So flying several hundred miles in a few minutes isn't fast enough for you?


Did anyone care to sit through the end credits to see the preview of Revolutions?

	17-05-2003 22:34									#59
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Ari,

just checked that. Indeed, she uses SSH for that little hacking trick, rather than some 3D crapola.

As for the film, I will either see it on cinema (still have two free tickets by dna), but most likely watch it some dark summer night at home from a rented DVD with my PC. Already downloaded the soundtrack CDs via Torret as 192 kbps MP3s and it was jolly good. Especially using Winamp's techno presets and adjusting the subwoofer volume improves it.

	17-05-2003 22:57									#60
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT They ever explain how they've reversed the Laws of Thermodynamics? Batteries! Hah!

Maybe batteries is just what the humans think. Personally, I think the machines need humans for their creativity. Machines can't go past their limitations. Humans have that capacity, however. We could still be programming the Matrix from within, without realizing it.