16-05-2003 04:30									#1
	Contents of Civ3-XP: Place Your Bets Here! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The BigFurryBookmaker's Office is Open!
Please place your bets here for:

• The eight (8) new Civilizations;
  
  
• The new Resources;
  
  
• The new Wonders;
  
  
• The new Governments;
  
  
• The new Disasters;
  
  
• "Other Things";
  

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 16-05-2003 at 04:38

	16-05-2003 04:32									#2
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You're just a few seconds too late. It looks like the Hittites are in.

	16-05-2003 04:44									#3
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Big Furry, I'd agree, except for Byzantium. I doubt that they would do that because of Istanbul.

	16-05-2003 04:45									#4
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I'll add things as I think of them...

Other things: Earthquakes, with epicenters and magnitude (effecting a tile area)
Tsunami (resulting from an underwater earthquake).
(and I wouldn't be a Florida boy if I forget this) Hurricanes.
Global cooling - remember the little Ice age??

E_T

	16-05-2003 04:55									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

So...

Sumerians
King Gilgamesh
Uruk (?)
Enkidu Warrior

Incas
Inca Atahualpa (?)
Cuzco (?)
Incan Scout

(a revamp of the original idea for Iroquois scout, as evidenced by the Civilopedia Files? Suspicion: Expansionists)

Mayans
(?)
(?)
Javelineer

Hittites
King Mursilis
Hattusas
(?)

	16-05-2003 05:51									#6
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The eight (8) new Civilizations;

1 Maya
2 Inca
3 Sumeria
4 Hittites
5 Israel
6 Byzantium
7 Huns
8 Dutch

* The new Resources;

Resources
Exotic Birds
Jade
Tobacco
(Playing it safe )

* The new Wonders;

Statue of Zeus
Statue of liberty

* The new Governments;
Governments
1 Fundamentalism/Thocracy
2 Sultanate

* The new Disasters;

Volcanoes
Floods

* "Other Things"

Unit trading

History Guy , what does the civlopedia say about the Iroquois?

Do you think the scout is a UU or flavor unit?

Not of this below counts
-----------

I think the Javelineer replaces Archer and is 3.1.1

The Endika Warrior replaces the warrior and is either 1.2.1 or 2.1.1 with 10 cost

EDIT: Woops, made a mistake in my lazyness

	16-05-2003 07:12									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

New Civs
Mayan
Incas
Sumerians
Hittites
Portuguese
Dutch
Israel
Australians

Resources
Tobacco
Jade
Exotic Birds
Copper
Silver

Wonders
Statue of Zeus
Statue of Liberty
Ishtar's Gate
Taj Mahal

Governments
Theocracy/Fundamentalism
Sultanate
Mercantilism

Others
Volcanoes
Earthquakes
Floods
Unit Trading

	16-05-2003 07:16									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

What about trying to guess at World Leaders and Unique Units:

Sumerians
Gilgamesh
Enkidu Warrior

Hittites
Mursilis

Incas
Atahualpa
Incan Scout

Mayans
Alvaro Manchez
Mayan Javelin

Israelis

Portuguese
Prince Henry the Navigator
Portuguese Man-o-War

Australians
Some sort of Elite Infantry - given their strong performance in WWI and WWII

	16-05-2003 07:49									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hey BigFurryMonster, isn't Bauxite only valuable because you can smelt aluminum from it? (And aluminum is already in the game)

	16-05-2003 08:34									#10
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Louis-- I'm not sure how to post .pcx attachments, so I'll just describe how I found it. Right-clicking on Start, I pressed Explore, and opened Program Files. From there, I clicked on Infogrames, then on CivIII. Click on Art, then Civilopedia. From there, click on Icons. Then, click units. There should be an image marked '02ScoutIroquois', or something to that effect, producing an image of a fearsome looking scout character who seems to have been the prototype UU!

As for lists...

Nothing to say where Mayans or Hittites are concerned.

Inca
Inca Atahualpa
Incan Scout
Cuzco

Israelites
King David
Slinger (2/1/2, replaces Archer)
Jerusalem

Sumerians
King Gilgamesh
Enkidu Warrior
Uruk

Portuguese
King Don Juan
Nao (upgraded defensive Galleon?)
Lisbon

Dutch
Stadholder Willem van Oranje
Ship of the Line (faster Frigate?)
Amsterdam

Those should be definite. But Ethiopia, Polynesia, Khmers, and some others I'd have liked to see shouldn't be left out...

	16-05-2003 09:05									#11
	Tired of ads?

OK, looks cool.

I hope this isn't their UU though. It adds balance issues to what might be a cool civ

	16-05-2003 09:46									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

useless stuff for $30 that will be required to buy to get bugfixes.

	16-05-2003 09:56									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The Mayan leader is probably going to be Pacal or Yaxcuctmo (not sure if that's the correct spelling).

I'm hoping for the Khmers and Nubia to be included.

Anyway:

Civilizations
1 Maya
Leader- Pacal; Capital-Tikal; UU-Javelin Thrower

2 Inca
Leader-Atahualpa; Capital-Cuzco; UU-Clubman

3 Sumeria
Leader-Gilgamesh; Capital-Ur; UU-Ekindu Warrior

4 Khmer
Leader-??; Capital-Angkor; UU-??

5 Nubia
Leader-Taharqa (or "Taharka"); Capital-Meroe; UU-Archer of the Eyes

6 Hittites
Leader-Mursilis; Capital-??; UU-??

7 Hebrews
Leader-King David; Capital-Jerusalem; UU-Merkava?

8 Polynesians
Leader-Kamehameha; Capital-Oahu; UU-??

Resources
1 Copper
2 Bauxite
3 Exotic Birds
4 Jade
5 Tobacco

Wonders
1 Eiffel Tower
2 Statue of Liberty
3 Taj Mahal

Governments
1 Fundamentalism
2 Sultanate

Disasters
Volcanoes
Floods
Plague
Storms
Earthquakes

Last edited by Azeem on 16-05-2003 at 10:06

	16-05-2003 12:02									#14
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this expansion deifnitedly seems MUCH more inspired than PtW. as long as the light of heavenly inspiration shines on the devs I'm satisfied.

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX useless stuff for $30 that will be required to buy to get bugfixes.

always the optimist uber?

cheers

	16-05-2003 15:07									#15
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just like I didn't get PtW, I'm 100% sure I won't get this new XP pack.

I agree with UberX, spending £15 or so on such a useless XP would be a total waste of my money

	17-05-2003 03:47									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Civilizations:

(besides the 4 confirmed)

Byzantines: ind/rel

Phoenicians: com/exp UU: an improved galley-type ship

Portuguese: com/exp UU: should have been the Man of War...

Hebrews: rel/com



(note, the traits are what I think they should be, most likely they'll be different)

	17-05-2003 04:23									#17
	Re: Contents of Civ3-XP: Place Your Bets Here! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

• The eight (8) new Civilizations;
  Hittites
  Sumerians
  Inca
  Maya
  Khmers
  Hebrews
  Ethiopian / Mali
  Dutch
  
  
• The new Resources;
  Tobacco, Jade and Exotic birds (all 3 luxuries). I don't think there will be anything else.
  
  
• The new Wonders;
  The Temple of Zeus
  Eiffel Tower
  Statue of Liberty
  Angkor Wat
  
  
• The new Governments;
  "Bureaucratic Monarchy" (something to reflect more advanced monarchies of the renaissance era, different from feudal monarchies)
  Fundamentalism
  
  
• The new Disasters;
  Volcano eruptions
  Earthquakes
  Floods
  Pirates
  
  
• "Other Things";
  Unit trading
  

	17-05-2003 04:54									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

FYI bauxite = aluminum.

"Other Things:"

An editor I won't be satisfied with.

	17-05-2003 05:01									#19
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So far they haven't mentioned the magic word:

EVENTS

	17-05-2003 05:02									#20
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Trip :
What kind of exotic features would you need from an editor to be satisfied ?

	17-05-2003 05:05									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen So far they haven't mentioned the magic word: EVENTS

If they are to make scenarios and 'more powerful tools than has ever existed in a Civ game', events will be in. Except for events and tweakable diplomacy, everything is set to make scenarios in the current editor. With a whole year to work on it, I'd assume they'll have finished this big mark on the wishlist. After all, powerful scenario abilities seem to be the forcus of this expansion.

	17-05-2003 05:32									#22
	Remove this text

Actually it sounds more like PTW where instead of emphasizing the MP aspects of the XP they're emphasizing the SP ones. PTW came with "enhanced editor support" and "all new scenarios and features" also.

Spiffor, by now you should know that 'more powerful tools than has ever existed in a Civ game' is just marketing language to make people excited about what might be in the game. Until they start naming specifics, I won't plan on buying it.

	17-05-2003 05:39									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Besides, even if diplomacy is in, I doubt events are in. If events are, I will be impressed, but not enthralled. There are many things I would like to see in the editor besides those two, including labels (the ability to put words on the map), building customization, city customization, more control over resources and their effects, easier customization of units (instead of having to change 4 files to make the game work with them), the same goes with techs and other things like that.

All said, Civ 3 suffers from the obvious problem of "we designed it as a SP game with no other features and now we're scrambling to make the other added features work." You can't even move the graphical representation of techs on the tech screen without having to completely change the source graphics file, which means for every new tech you add, you have to make a custom graphics file, customize where you need to click on this screen, play with code in the civilopedia and pediaicons files, all in addition to designating what the tech actually does. And there is a woeful amount of customization you can do with techs. After a certain point, all custom techs can do is unveil new resources/buildings/units, and none of the "cool" effects, like reducing disease from flood plains, or allowing new worker actions, or the ability to cross rivers without the movement penalty. A vast multitude of things missing which will always make the Civ 3 editor relatively weak when you think about it.

	17-05-2003 05:56									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Trip Spiffor, by now you should know that 'more powerful tools than has ever existed in a Civ game' is just marketing language to make people excited about what might be in the game. Until they start naming specifics, I won't plan on buying it.

Indeed. I don't rule out the editor to be half-assed (yet I am much less demanding than ytou ), and I am aware it is RP talk here. But I think events are definitely in.
Fixed diplomacy sure is a cool change, but it isn't enough of a drastic change to back one year of development. After all, Mike Breitkreutz made the major editor change -that is, having the editor understand the concept of 'individual Civs'- in a few months, and in a patch.
Weren't SP concerns the focus of this expansion, I wouldn't hold my breath for events. But from the beginning of the speculations on PtW one year ago, I think the same. First expansion would be Civ : Play the others and second expansion would be Civ : Play the Scenarios

I'd just hate to have my predictions wrong

	17-05-2003 08:24									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The work Mike got done for 1.29f was rather impressive but since then I haven't seen much of anything to be too impressed about regarding the editor, aside from the ability to load different graphics, but that's not worth the work for an entire XP. I don't even know if there were any changes made between 1.14f and 1.21f.

Despite the fact that most of the problems are due to demands from Infogrames/Atari, it doesn't make me want any less from my $30.

	19-05-2003 00:59									#26
	My two cents Support Apolyton

Civilizations
Mayans
Incas
Sumerians
Hittites
Nubia
Khmer
Byzantines
Celts(I said Slavs before, but I changed my mind)

Resources
Cotton
Exotic Birds
Jade
Tobacco

Great Wonders
Eiffel Tower
Statue of Liberty
Statue of Zeus
Stonehenge

Small Wonders
Smithsonian (or equivilant)
Hollywood (or equivilant)

Governments (they say there are many, so I'll give a few)
Islamic Sultinate
Theocracy
Tribal (Elders and such)

Disasters
Volcanoes
Floods
Earthquakes
Droughts

Other Things
Clandestine Abilities
Global Abilities
Treaties

	19-05-2003 02:03									#27
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The Emperor Fabulous, you might want to change it back

Celts are already in the game

	19-05-2003 02:42									#28
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen So far they haven't mentioned the magic word: EVENTS

They mentioned disasters being in the XP. Maybe that might tie into "Events"?

	19-05-2003 05:11									#29
	Remove this text

New civs:

1) Incas
2) Mayans
3) Sumerians
4) Hittites
5) Poles
6) Portugese
7) Polynesians
8) Hebrews/Israel

	19-05-2003 09:41									#30
	Tired of ads?

as long as they have an event system similiar to Civ2... I'll be happy