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Cruddy
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Those intrigued with a "close in" view of Hitler might like to read Albert Speer's autobiog, and how Hitler changed from 1929 up to his death.
OK, OK, he was a war criminal too... but at least he pleaded guilty at the trial.
I'm not saying I'd like to eat a meal with either of them... but it's better to be informed, I think.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:28
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Mel Brooks always got a lot of milage out of Hitler, comedically.
I think simply making a movie about hitler is very difficult. Obviosuly he was a very charesmatic individual, and that is always difficult to bring on screen, but at the same time he was sort of, well, lazy sometimes (he would usually get up at noon, watch a couple of movies, then do some work) A lot of his followers are also difficult people to bring on stage, like Himmler, who didn't like to shoot guns at the same time he ran the SS.
Overall, he is the sort of man which probably is extremely difficult to bring on screen, as are most "great" men, since much fo their power simply does not transmit., and given that, people resort to stereotype, making thwem devils or angels, depending on the character.
Oh, and I think the mini series deals only with the rise of Hitler, I don't think it extends to far into his rule (Hindenburg seems to be a big character in the series).
One of the things from the Nazi's that always astounds me most was one of Himmlers speeches to a gathering of SS men, were he praised them for being able to remain "decent" human beings in the face of the things they were doing in the East.
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Lincoln
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quote:
Originally posted by Cruddy
Those intrigued with a "close in" view of Hitler might like to read Albert Speer's autobiog, and how Hitler changed from 1929 up to his death.
OK, OK, he was a war criminal too... but at least he pleaded guilty at the trial.
I'm not saying I'd like to eat a meal with either of them... but it's better to be informed, I think. |
I've read a few books by Speer. He does provice valuable insight but I probably would sit down to dinner with him. At least he knows what repentance is. Yea, he got caught so he repented when he lost, but that is an aspect of human nature that is at least a step above an unrepentant evil doer.
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Lincoln
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Well people often need to be shocked into reality. When your cities are being burned and you find yourself in jail it can be an eyeopener! I think that Speer was sincere after he spent a few years in the slammer and was able to think about what he was involved in.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Giant_Squid
I don't know, I think I have more respect for someone who stands by their beliefs through good or bad, even evil beliefs, than someone who has a superficial change of heart when it's convenient for them. You just know if the Nazis had risen again he probably would have had another "change of heart" and decided they were okay after all just in time to benefit from working with them again. That kind of attitude is probably what led him to work with the Nazis in the first place, after all. |
I have to disagree. Have you read any of Speer's writings? He really is sincerely repentant, IMO. I don't think he could have fooled Simon Weisenthal, after all.
Speer was in disagreement with Hitler as the war was ending, and openly defied him at the end, handing over his in-tact munitions plants to the Allies instead of destroying them.
Speer's defense of his use of slave labor is most likely hindsight exaggeration. I doubt he really cared about saving Jews from extermination as much as he did maximizing efficiency. Still, he has a point in that those slaves weren't exterminated in the camps.
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Cruddy
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Speer served 20 - hardly a few. In solitary in Spandau. Not a breeze.
At the trial, the Soviets REALLy wanted him dead. All those guns and tanks aimed at them.
His defence was quite simply, he had cared more for the machines and the buildings than he did for people.
I believe (long time since I read it) he was put on Death Row but survived on appeal - and then had 20 years to consider his choices.
Being a close confidant of Hitler probably brought on a few nightmares as well. It certainly would for most human beings.
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uh Clem
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Born in the US; damned if I know where I live now
Nov 1999
time: 23:28
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quote:
One of the things from the Nazi's that always astounds me most was one of Himmlers speeches to a gathering of SS men, were he praised them for being able to remain "decent" human beings in the face of the things they were doing in the East. |
I first ran across that quote about 10 years ago IIRC. I think I read it a dozen times over, to see if I was misunderstanding it.
Himmler was very proud of his men: "to have done all this, and yet to have remained decent," I think is what he said. This isn't some pogrom by a bunch of drunken peasants, in other words, but a difficult and unpleasant (but necessary) task, and thank God we had men like you to carry it out. The public may never know of what you've done, but I do and I appreciate it.
It was one of the most revealing statements ever made by a top Nazi, and it confirms what Boris mentioned earlier. They weren't monsters, they were ordinary guys who sometimes needed pep talks to get through the day.
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:28
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even hitler loved his dog
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Lincoln
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There was even sympathy shown for the "poor soldiers" who were wearing out their trigger fingers by shooting so many Jews in one day. Loving a dog can be misleading to say the least...
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:28
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One of the reasons the Nazis moved to industralized murder after 1942 was that, besides a bit more efficient, the old fashioned type of mass killing was wearing down men psychologically. (The Nazi's never punished men who refused to kill-they just got sent to other tasks).
I find that quote amazing becuase what Himmler is basically telling his men that he is proud that they were able to overcome pityt, anguish, and whatever other sentiments they had that might make them question thier acts and they had overcome them, in order to carry out their historical task.
And sadly, he was right, and is right, about man: human beings are able to overcome all those sentiments we cheerish in order to carry out tasks. They are capable of dehumanizing, delegitimazing the lives of others , or abstracting them (just read documents about nuclar war and the endless euphiamisms) in order to kill them without remorse, without a second thought. Memories may come to haunt them, but that is a little late.
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Cruddy
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I've said it in another thread and I'll say it again here.
If you want to know what the Holocaust was like, read Primo Levi.
Sorry GePap, this notion of not punishing those who failed to kill is a gross blanket statement and the msg length limitation of threads leaves me no alternative but to suggest a "confirmed" source.
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Dr Strangelove
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I just watched the first part of the series. The series does seem to have a little more depth in how it portrays Hitler than any other Hitler biography movie I've ever seen, but it doesn't go far enough. We are shown how his father introduces him to Wagner, how he beats the boy Adolf for transgressions, and how young Hitler responds with acts of vandalism (burns his father's bee hive). They should have devoted more time to the early years, as all the other stuff has already been done.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by orange
I think it is further indication that people can only be entertained to get information, otherwise they couldn't be bothered 
But, in any event, i think it will be good to show what things led Hitler to what he did. Madmen aren't born, they are created by society. |
Some madmen are created by society, and some are born. Hitler seems to be a creation of environment. He seemed an annoying person before WW1, and after 4 years in the Somme his more brutal and insane characteristics came to the fore. Even bad people sometimes have good characteristics. In many ways Hitler was brave, especially concerning his own personal safety. He started the "Night of the Long Knives" by personally arresting a bunch of Stormtroopers armed only with a pistol and his command ability. Considering the fact that they had access to machine guns it was a gutsy move. Of course if they had realized what was to become of many of them, they may have had a different reaction.
This same person had a panic attack on the eve of the Anchluss with Austria, and Hermann Goering of all people took charge and saw the operation through. This was one reason why Hitler stood by Goering during the war, even though Goering's failures were numerous.
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18-05-2003 03:41
I can add nothing to what he already said. Hitler was one of us, a fellow human being. We need to deal with it now.
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