18-05-2003 00:09									#1
	The Hitler Miniseries. Got spare money?

Is anyone here going to bother to watch this? I've read a few reviews and they aren't encouraging.

Hitler is a fascinating character but it looks from the reports as though this series has been hijacked in the name of politics so as to prevent it being a worthwhile look at the man himself.

Apparently, most of the complaints were that it might "humanize" Hitler. Given the fact that Hitler was a human being and that many people liked and respected him I don't think this is a bad idea. Sure he was a madman and a monster but he was one of us, and we shouldn't go about trying to deny his humanity to make ourselves feel better.

I suppose it's a shame that probably the most interesting character of the last century (to judge from the number of biographies published) can't get an objective hearing, especially since you don't really need to lie about him to make him look bad.

It's often said that we shouldn't make evil people look good at the pain of legitimizing their evil deeds. I think this is false, when it comes to evil we should never exaggerate lest people become unable to recognize real evil when it is in front of them.

	18-05-2003 00:13									#2
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I think we should say the truth about Hitler.

	18-05-2003 00:15									#3
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I'll watch it.

Though I understand the knee jerk reaction to Hitler. It's the same anytime anyone starts talking about racism, people just turn off their brains and don't want to hear it.

	18-05-2003 00:18									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Apparently, most of the complaints were that it might "humanize" Hitler. Given the fact that Hitler was a human being and that many people liked and respected him I don't think this is a bad idea. Sure he was a madman and a monster but he was one of us, and we shouldn't go about trying to deny his humanity to make ourselves feel better.

I think Hitler is more human than many people think.

Like you said, it doesnt take much effort to demonize the guy, so whats with all the gross reaction.

	18-05-2003 00:26									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I think we should say the truth about Hitler.

Exactly. No more and no less. We certainly shouldn't try to portray him as Satan, since nobody is really like that.

I'd be willing to bet that if most of us met Hitler at a bus stop, we would actually like him. He was one of those people who is incredibly charismatic in person. This is part of the Hitler enigma and is perhaps one of the most deeply worrying things about him and his ilk.

Like the avatar, who's that?

	18-05-2003 00:29									#6
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The Lubaviche Rabbi. His followers thought he was the Messiah. now he's dead, IIRC.

	18-05-2003 00:30									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel The Lubaviche Rabbi. His followers thought he was the Messiah. now he's dead, IIRC.

Like Sabbatai Zevi (another man who deserves a miniseries).

How about someone reviews the series for Poly? I don't think I'm up to it.

	18-05-2003 00:33									#8
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quote: Like Sabbatai Zevi (another man who deserves a miniseries).

oh, no. Sabbatai Zvi had a much larger following in his time. This guy had a huge following, too, but Sabbatai was a fricking phenomenon. Too bad he was all talk no walk. ( No, I don't hope he was the Messiah, , but a comparable political leader, capable of uniting the jews at the time. Maybe he could've mustered a deal with the otomans over the area. )

	18-05-2003 00:38									#9
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I'm not sure what specifically are you talking about.


I saw a very interesting show about Hitler as a person, and his relationship with the Wagners. It showed what a large impact the family, and Wagner's creations had on him.

	18-05-2003 00:40									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov I'm not sure what specifically are you talking about. I saw a very interesting show about Hitler as a person, and his relationship with the Wagners. It showed what a large impact the family, and Wagner's creations had on him.

The new Hitler miniseries, starring Robert Carlyle, which premieres in Canada and the US tomorrow night.

Have you seen it already?

	18-05-2003 00:42									#11
	Got spare money?

Obviously, not.

There is some chance that we won't get it, might touch a sensitive note with holocaust survivors, and war veterans.

	18-05-2003 00:46									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Obviously, not. There is some chance that we won't get it, might touch a sensitive note with holocaust survivors, and war veterans.

Sorry, I was asking Sirotnikov.

I think you will get it. Bnai' Bri'th [sic] seem pleased with the result. But they were one of the political pressure groups I was complaining about in the first post.

Gee... if a documentary film about Hitler needs to be seen anywhere it's Israel (after Germany of course).

	18-05-2003 00:51									#13
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I was answering for him. There is no way it could be seen in Israel.

I hope it gets here, and gets the real picture. I don't think one should demand any more.

	18-05-2003 00:55									#14
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I think we need a "Hitler committed more atrocities than fast black people committed crimes" thread.

	18-05-2003 00:56									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I think we need a "Hitler committed more atrocities than fast black people committed crimes" thread.

Ted, if you get my "Hitler" thread closed, I'm going to have Ming send you to a concentration camp.

	18-05-2003 01:00									#16
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Hitler committed no crime.

	18-05-2003 01:02									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Hitler committed no crime.

Someone please, save my thread!!!!

	18-05-2003 01:05									#18
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Was he ever arrested?

	18-05-2003 01:06									#19
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That's ok, I've laser-marked him for destruction by MoD bombers.

	18-05-2003 01:10									#20
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I don't think there's ever been a convincing portrayal of hitler on screen, although I hear there's a adaptation of a book called The portage of San Christobal of AH that's supposed to be quite good.

	18-05-2003 01:21									#21
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In related news (i.e. TV portrayals of evil fascists) there's a telemovie about Martha Stewart on this week.

What's the bet that more people will watch that than watch the Hitler series?

	18-05-2003 01:23									#22
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quote: In related news (i.e. TV portrayals of evil fascists) there's a telemovie about Martha Stewart on this week.

But you spoiled it by explaining.

	18-05-2003 01:23									#23
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave I don't think there's ever been a convincing portrayal of hitler on screen, although I hear there's a adaptation of a book called The portage of San Christobal of AH that's supposed to be quite good.

Alec Guinness was a pretty good Hitler.

Peter Ustinov tells a story about how Guinness was standing in the middle of a street in London dressed as Hitler, reciting the Nuremberg address. Oddly no one seemed to notice, except a cop who asked his cameraman to move their car.

	18-05-2003 01:39									#24
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There was a Stalin miniseries a while back, IIRC....so why not?

As long as it shows both the good and the bad aspects of the character, it's fine.

Just don't expect to learn too much history from whatever they show you on TV though...

	18-05-2003 01:49									#25
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Oy

who would want to play hitler?

I mean, sure, as a person with a soft spot for acting (I'm a natural comic and actor) I see the challenge and interest.

But then you go in the street and some idiot yells: "hey, aren't you hitler??"

	18-05-2003 03:00									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Alec Guinness was a pretty good Hitler.

I thought he was superb. Human, frighteningly human.

I, for one, get disgusted with the "Hitler was a monster!" attitude that people use to try and seperate themselves from him. It is an extreme disservice to history and ourselves to try and make Hitler and his cronies less-than-human, as it denies the possibility for any person to partake in such atrocities. What's most horrifying about the Nazi murderers was that they were human, like us, and yet still participated in these crimes. That's the lesson we should be learning--it can happen anywhere, and by anybody. Trying to deny that will lead to perpetuating it.

	18-05-2003 03:01									#28
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Maybe it's time for a serious documentary about who and why of Hitler. After all , evil just doesn't appear out of nowhere.

Spink, maybe it's time they kick you out of here, and this time for real.

	18-05-2003 03:02									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Was he ever arrested?

So if I murder a bunch of people, but kill myself before the police arrest me, that means I didn't commit a crime? Are you on drugs today?

And Hitler spent a year in prison thanks to his lovely Beer Hall Putsch, so yes, he was a criminal.

	18-05-2003 03:10									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I, for one, get disgusted with the "Hitler was a monster!" attitude that people use to try and seperate themselves from him. It is an extreme disservice to history and ourselves to try and make Hitler and his cronies less-than-human, as it denies the possibility for any person to partake in such atrocities. What's most horrifying about the Nazi murderers was that they were human, like us, and yet still participated in these crimes. That's the lesson we should be learning--it can happen anywhere, and by anybody. Trying to deny that will lead to perpetuating it.

Agreed.