09-07-2003 02:51									#361
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Drones are encountered on the new base site.
We need to discuss foreign affairs.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Kody/ACDG-Hive2120.zip



Kody

Last edited by Kody on 09-07-2003 at 03:13

	09-07-2003 03:36									#362
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Alright, I need to know this, preferably if Googlie can respond. Is the use of "Demand Withdraw" allowed for the proposes of the demo game?

	09-07-2003 03:44									#363
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It doesn't work. For this instance the AI automatically puts us on vendetta.
Also I can't talk to you at all Chairman. I see your messages but can't respond. My client seems to disable chating when they're not online.

Kody

	09-07-2003 03:45									#364
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No - you can only ask them thru the diplo box.

The Demand Withdrawal feature, like the bribing other human factions for council votes, is an AI demand/response, and as such is banned in PBEM type games

G.

	09-07-2003 03:46									#365
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Do you want me to set up a neutral website with a forums board and a chat room for secure Drone-Hive discussions?

	09-07-2003 03:48									#366
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Also notice we've met them in two places.
We met their transport as well as scout.

Kody

	09-07-2003 03:49									#367
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Googlie!!!!
You read my mind!!!!!

Kody

	09-07-2003 03:57									#368
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Private messages will work fine. In the mean time, I suggest we appoint an ambassador or something to go demand some movement...

	09-07-2003 03:58									#369
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Finally we meet. Hope it won't turn out too ugly. Anyway since the scout patrol is there, if they don't move, I suggest the colony pod would go towards the coastal base site?

	09-07-2003 04:02									#370
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I'll be the ambassador, since recently I've been online 17 hours each day and regularly checking the boards. There's some advantage to having a quick response time. Also I haven't annoyed anyone yet.

At the moment I'm wishing for a pact. The drones could be good pact mates and if they finish building the merchant exchange they probably will be able to out-tech us with a super science city. Also It seems that buster writes alot of the alpha centuari game tips and strats.

Kody

	09-07-2003 04:04									#371
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Although hopes for peaceful diplomacy would be nice, (judging by the possible use of transports, we may not reach them for a while due to water separation), however, with the Drone's hostility, that option is unlikely.

	09-07-2003 04:09									#372
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Go easy first, don't seem too eager. And don't let them know we don't have transports. We cannot let them intimidate us.

	09-07-2003 07:39									#373
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Most probably they will not know our military strength and may not want to test it out since we are the Hives.

Also I'm hoping that they want to form alliance with somebody too, from their viewpoint, the Hive may actually be a good choice.

	09-07-2003 07:43									#374
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We still have the pesky AI to take care off, and they are running away on the powergraph.

	09-07-2003 07:45									#375
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We're currently waiting on the Drone's decision on whether we have a treaty, pact or vendetta.

Our colony pod is at stake so we're going to watch until we have figured out what they're planning on doing.

Kody

	09-07-2003 07:55									#376
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Hopefully Googlie will be lenient and allow us more time to resolve this issue.

	09-07-2003 10:48									#377
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quote: Originally posted by Octavian X Private messages will work fine.

Except that they are 1 on 1, with much copying and pasting and forwarding. Dedicated websites each with their own forums page and own chatroom work better. More levels of interaction and better roleplaying.

But a better idea than me creating a unique website for your negotiaitons and strategy discussions would be for Buster just to set up a private forum at CGN (he runs CGN) open just to Drone and Hive members.

quote: Originally posted by Vev Hopefully Googlie will be lenient and allow us more time to resolve this issue.

I have posted to the general turn thread that an extension is warranted

G.

	09-07-2003 11:02									#378
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Googlie,

If we do decide to pact till the end with the drones. Will it be easily to do the forum merge idea that the Cycon suggested? I'm under the understanding that the Drones have 2 forums. Maybe more...

Also in CGN games how does it often end. Single faction wins, or pacted faction wins. We need to know how serious a CGNer would be about pacts.

Kody

	09-07-2003 11:19									#379
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I'm not sure how 'Poly would merge forums (you certainly wouldn't want to retroactively just let Drone players read all your prior Hive private forum posts), so maybe a third forum would be needed - the DroneHive Forum or somesuch thing.

But that's what Buster can do with his CGN (Civilization Gaming Network) website - he can just label a forum as "Drone-Hive Secure Log" or something and from then on only Drone and Hive members could access it (you can visit the CGN site right now, but you won't be able to get into the Democracy Game threads - in fact, I don't think you can even see it's there (it's a sub-forum with about forty threads to it)

Re the various players at CGN - they did well in the Forum Wars challenge (co-op victory against teams from Poly and ACOL. I've played in several PBEMs with both Mark and Buster and have lost and won, both alone and in co-operation with both (I've actually never beaten Buster in head-to-head but have participated in a co-op victory with him)

If this were a Tourney game, with points allotted, I'd say "watch out for your back" but as it isn't, and as RolePlay is as important as the actual game itself, I'd say that if they pact they'll keep the pact. If it's a Strategic Pact "to the end, co-op victory or die in the trying", they'll either win with you or go down with you, guns blazing

But if it's a Tactical Pact - for thirty or fifty years - recognize that they'll take out of it what they can get, always expecting the worst (that it will collpase on its expiry) and would only be renewed if it suited them then tactically

G.

Last edited by Googlie on 09-07-2003 at 17:26

	09-07-2003 11:31									#380
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Googlie,

Would you be able to tell how honorable the senior members of the drones are. Would they be interested in backstabbing? Ofcourse you may decline, however any information would be useful.

No you don't have to copy.

Kody

________________________________________

Also it would be nice to know if they're anywhere near reaching a decision about these issues.

Kody

Last edited by Kody on 09-07-2003 at 14:08

	09-07-2003 17:39									#381
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In my experience the four most senior (Buster, Mark, Mongoose and Shadowlord3) are all trustworthy.

They are in too many PBEMs for them to risk their reputations with shady deals and backstabbing. But that's not to say they wouldn't seek a faction advantage within a pact, if that pact wasn't "to the end"

(And that's not to say, either, that there might not be pressure from lesser players for some typical sungle player tactics that would involve shifting alliances and backstabbing - the seniors may be outvoted (after all, this is a Democracy game)

That's why your diplomacy needs to be fine tuned. If you Pact for just fifty years, or until MMI (or whatever) - make sure that all the t's are crossed and i's dotted. eg - who gets what SP's ... are techs of equal value ..... do you duplicate everything, or does one focus on research and the other on energy ..... will one be ocean-dominant 9to counter the Pirates) and the other land/air (and what happens if the pact collapses - do units get "gifted" to each other to ensure land/air/sea parity?) ....... do both of you build a "super science city"? ..... should there be a shared energy park(s)

Obviously, if you enter a Perma-Pact these points are moot - you'll likely create a joint command structure and utilize the respective strengths of each faction

All of these would enter into pact discussions (which is why I suggested a private forum/dedicated website - it involves many different levels of interaction between factions)

G.

Last edited by Googlie on 09-07-2003 at 17:54

	09-07-2003 17:40									#382
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Thanks,

With nothing better to do I was trawling through Buster's forums.
They seem emotionally well balanced, and trustworthy unless they have a different game playing personality. After what you said about the games they are used too I would be willing to go put faith in a perm-pact.

Kody

	09-07-2003 18:06									#383
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My only caveat would be Mark (known in 'Poly circles as mark13) - and this is how actions reverberate through the PBEM games.

In a fun game I was Gaians and he was PK's (game was a 'Poly one, the Hare). We were pacted, but I was on slightly better land and had out-ICS'd him. he was Governor, and was the muscle of the pact and I was the research arm.

Anyway - about turn 2250 he renounced pact, then declared vendetta, then PB's my base with the SC and the ToE in it. (I knew he had the PB - for "deterrent purposes") Set me back a lot, as I had little offensive strength let alone defense - I think I lost maybe 12 bases to him before my green army kicked in.

We neither of us won - it was (IIRC) JSchwab as Morgan who won in the end, mainly because Mark and I kicked the crap out of each other.

So I have never pacted with mark in a PBEM since.

But that was a couple of years ago - my guess is that he's prolly more reliable now that he's an "elder statesman" and big in CGN circles

G.

	09-07-2003 18:20									#384
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quote: Originally posted by Kody Also it would be nice to know if they're anywhere near reaching a decision about these issues.

I know it's not a question directed to me (and if it were I obviously couldn't answer it) but I do know that Mongoose has been deputizing in Buster's temporary absence so my guess is that their response is delayed 'cos of this

G.

	09-07-2003 18:55									#385
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That is comforting to hear, this is coming from a newbie with no idea who these people are. Anyway, so they are honourable chaps and play what is fair. Of course this holds while they are still in power.

	09-07-2003 19:10									#386
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All these let me hope that we reach a permanent pact. Although sometime you know things are not always that easy. Sigh! But I have to confess that the idea of tactic pact is kind of baffling to me. I guess this will be an excellent learning opportunity if we do end up that way.

	09-07-2003 19:16									#387
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Ideally a Permanent pact would be great, as we can use the experience the Drones provide. Failing that, a pact with a well-defined expiry condition would be the next thing to go for. So hopefully we won't have ill-feelings towards each other when it ends.

What would be interesting is what the Hive can do to make the Drones wanting to continue with the pact. If we drop off and become slack or incompetent, we deserve to be wallopped. Any experience PBEMers have suggestions on what makes it attractive to continue staying pacted together?

	09-07-2003 19:22									#388
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If the pact is successful, we can ask them.

Kody

Last edited by Kody on 09-07-2003 at 21:30

	09-07-2003 19:28									#389
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I wonder if the map labels are transferred between factions. It would be kindof fun relabeling a couple of landmarks in the drone terriorty to cheeky names.

Kody

	09-07-2003 19:35									#390
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"Sparkling Claire Forlani River"?