05-07-2003 19:12									#331
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Rokossovky Oh, and Googlie God... I am done my finals.... as soon as Jamski comes back, you still good for our multiplayer fun?

Yup - I wannabe the kicka$$ Spartans. Naw - maybe the Fungboyo - aw heck - whatever



G.

	06-07-2003 02:28									#332
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Contrary to popular opinion the CHAIRMAN IS NOT DEAD! He's just been very very busy as of late... I will be back! Count on it! I'm almost done with what I have to do.

	06-07-2003 03:55									#333
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quote: Contrary to popular opinion the CHAIRMAN IS NOT DEAD!

Damn, my plan must have failed :P

Re: Googlie

If you'll allow it I like to play the Usurpers, but if you have something against alien factions (as some do), I'd like to play UoP. (If I do play Usurpers, we would have to make sure Caretakers are in there as well... on trancend mode).

- Rokossovky

	06-07-2003 05:31									#334
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I've no problem - indeed - some of my best friends are Usurpers ...

I'd want another human to play the Caretakers, though. An AI Caretaker would be like putty in a human Usurper hands (claws?)

G.

	06-07-2003 05:55									#335
	Remove this text

The former in St. Voltairesburg will be completed next turn. I suggest it head south-west and forest the energy resource. After that road that square move directly to the south of Voltairesburg and plants one more forest and road again.

The 2nd forest will hopefully push out that fungus around that area. The two roads will hopefully increase movement.

The former south-east of Kommie city will complete the farm next turn. The turn after that we need to figure out where to move it.

I think the other two formers near Kommie city will be finished in 3 turns?
They also need to be redirected. One goes and forests the nutrient near voltairograd and the other roads to the 5th city we're planning on building.

I don't know if this is illegal or not, but I think what you can do when moving formers is use up 2/3 of the move and then do some terranforming task use up the last 1/3. It basically reduces the terranforming amount by 1 each time you do it. So once it reaches its destination it'll complete the improvement faster.

Kody

	06-07-2003 07:54									#336
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I'll play caretaker, but I'll probably still be putty on Rokossovky's hands ...

Kody

	06-07-2003 08:41									#337
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quote: Originally posted by Kody Octavian X, Can you take the turn.

For future records, I don't have SMAC/X, and my copy of SMAC doesn't work

	06-07-2003 08:45									#338
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Dear Comrade Octavian Xenodoughnut, I offer my most sincere condolence. I'm currently working on getting the no cd patch (SMAX) to work. I'll keep you posted if my effort has any positive return. And as for the SMAC doesn't work, what's the problem? Can you buy another one? I got mine at ebay. Pretty cheap too.

	06-07-2003 08:53									#339
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quote: Originally posted by Kody HongHu, There's nothing wrong with crawlering a borehole. As for a monlith my suggestion was building another city nearby. Kody

Well from what I learnt (which makes great sense to me)it is never recommended to crawl a borehole since you only get half of the benefit. Think about it, it generates 6 min and 6 energy and you will lose 6 min or 6 energy if you use a crawler, what a waste!

	06-07-2003 09:00									#340
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quote: Originally posted by Rokossovky as soon as Jamski comes back

That's a big question mark over there ...

On another note, it is a nice supprise to notice that the Marshal and I are on the same page with regard to the unit movements.

As the the valley base site, if we want easy movement, wouldn't the river square bt the min and nut bonuses is a better choice? It saves one turn compare to the nut square. And the nut square can be farmed and condensored in the near future to make a much greater profit.

	06-07-2003 09:59									#341
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- Reasons against putting city on nutrient
* 1 extra turn to move colony pod
* crawling the nutrient later

- Reasons for putting city on nutrient
* You can farm and condense another square and still get the same effort since you've already got the city drawing the +2 nurtient. The nutrient bonus doesn't multiple with improvements.
* Because of the river we get +1 energy in that city until the city grows very large.
* With the city already drawing the +2 nutrient and the city size 1 we can sometimes switch to the minerals to hurry a colony pod. Otherwise we lose the +2 nutrient bonus when we switch to the minerals. With one worker pernamently stuck on the nutrient we won't have enough minerals to produce colony pods at the same rate as the city grows.
* Future colony pods will be saved 1 turn moving as they don't have to move to the river.
* We save at least 3 former turns with joining the two river systems up as the city automatically creates a road (2 turns to make road, 1 turn to move there)

Kody

	06-07-2003 10:17									#342
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Kody - Reasons against putting city on nutrient * 1 extra turn to move colony pod * crawling the nutrient later - Reasons for putting city on nutrient * You can farm and condense another square and still get the same effort since you've already got the city drawing the +2 nurtient. The nutrient bonus doesn't multiple with improvements. * Because of the river we get +1 energy in that city until the city grows very large. * With the city already drawing the +2 nutrient and the city size 1 we can sometimes switch to the minerals to hurry a colony pod. Otherwise we lose the +2 nutrient bonus when we switch to the minerals. With one worker pernamently stuck on the nutrient we won't have enough minerals to produce colony pods at the same rate as the city grows. * Future colony pods will be saved 1 turn moving as they don't have to move to the river. * We save at least 3 former turns with joining the two river systems up as the city automatically creates a road (2 turns to make road, 1 turn to move there) Kody

One benefit of nut special being working square is that it does not have pre-tech limit. The square I suggested is also a river square so have all the benefit related to energy and movement. We'll probably need to switch from nut to min squares from turn to turn to maximize the benefit, but other than more micro management, it still can be done to produce colony pods at the same rate as the city grows. Also the near long term when teraforming is done it should be able to produce colony pods faster this way.

	06-07-2003 11:37									#343
	Remove this text

quote: while you're at it tell them the Chairman said you can also run turns while i'm away

The Chairman said I can run turns while he is away. lol, in other words, not much is changing, but my turn playing abilities are now more official. No, this is not a revolution, the Chairman is still FIRMLY in charge, just when he can't get to the turns, I will run them. (see the new Bill before the PAC).

- Rokossovky

	06-07-2003 13:05									#344
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quote: One benefit of nut special being working square is that it does not have pre-tech limit.

That doesn't change the amount of nutrients we get. We don't get more nutrients whether we put the base on the square or we don't put it on the square.

quote: The square I suggested is also a river square so have all the benefit related to energy and movement.

I thought you said you were agreeing with Rokossovky, who was suggesting a non-river square. That means we got three different opinions on which square to put the base on.

quote: We'll probably need to switch from nut to min squares from turn to turn to maximize the benefit, but other than more micro management, it still can be done to produce colony pods at the same rate as the city grows.

We'll lose the +2 nutrient bonus whenever we switch to minerals. With the base on top of the nutrients we won't have to lose the nutrient bonus. Therefore faster colony pods.

quote: Also the near long term when teraforming is done it should be able to produce colony pods faster this way.

You haven't explained how colony pods will be produced faster using your base placement. Also in the long run when we've finished all the terraforming we'll be building sea colony pods. That base won't be useful for colony pods by then.

The nutrient is just a straight +2 bonus. Putting terraforming on the nutrient doesn't make the bonus better. The terraforming would improve another square just as well.

All that matters is making sure that you're using the bonus as much as possible. We won't be making the best use of it if we periodically have to switch off it to minerals to hurry the colony pod along.

Kody
________________________________________
HongHu,

By the way I'm currently uploading a zip file of SMAX about 43MB in size without the sound and movies. When I unzipped it on another computer it ran fine so you can use it to fill in those SMAX files that were corrupted. It has all the files needed to play the game (without sound and movies) aside from the game binaries that you already have.

I will put the link up here, when it finishes uploading(3 hours time).

Disclaimer: This zip file is only being put up for the purpose of replacing the
damaged files of a SMAX installation. The game binaries have been removed to reduce the possiblity of game priacy. It is assumed that you should be in possession of a legal copy of the original Firaxis SMAC and SMAX Games.

PS: It's a pity that your SMAX cd got corrupted HongHu

Kody
__________________________________________________
__

Actually make that 4 hours time. Darn modems and their 3kb upload rates.

Kody

	06-07-2003 16:17									#345
	Remove this text

Backups of originals are good, to protect them from nasty accidents during handling.

	06-07-2003 16:30									#346
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Our low population count may partially be due to the fact our colony pods haven't settled yet. Also none our cities are size 2 and the slow groth of kommie city doesn't help.

	06-07-2003 17:07									#347
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I think the others have colony pods on the move too. It seems unlikely if they didn't. Also when I last did the count even with our colony pods we have the least population popluation.

Kody

_________________________

HongHu - Your move you made in Industry Game was invalid according to the rules.
Vev - You need to update your move.

Last edited by Kody on 06-07-2003 at 17:34

	07-07-2003 08:43									#348
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Kody That doesn't change the amount of nutrients we get. We don't get more nutrients whether we put the base on the square or we don't put it on the square.

Oh yes it does make a big difference. Base square and bonus squares are the only two types that are not limited before the tech. When you put base on the nut bonus, you lose one limit free square, and you can't build a farm not to mention a condensor inside the base.

See this thread for more detailed discussion.

quote: I thought you said you were agreeing with Rokossovky, who was suggesting a non-river square. That means we got three different opinions on which square to put the base on.

Yes three different opinions. We are truly very democratic aren't we?

quote: We'll lose the +2 nutrient bonus whenever we switch to minerals. With the base on top of the nutrients we won't have to lose the nutrient bonus. Therefore faster colony pods.

The basic idea is that rainy, nut with a farm the +5 nut could boom the population extremly fast (compare to the +2 limit pretech). So say you could build a colony pod in 7 turns but your growth will not occur in 11 turns, you have to build something else first and wait so that you could finish your colony pod same time as your growth. But with nut sqare, you build your colony pod with your working working on the mineral square and former working on the nut square, and when it is almost done the farm is finished, just switch to the nut square and in 1 turn, you get your growth, so you may be able to get your colony pod in 8 turns compare to 11 turns. True you lose some mineral in that one turn, but compare to the turn advantage it is well worth it.

And later in the game from that square with a condensor you get +7 and with a soil enricher you get +10. You can put a crawler there and it will feed a population of 5. But if you build your base there, you lose all of your future development potential.

quote: Also in the long run when we've finished all the terraforming we'll be building sea colony pods. That base won't be useful for colony pods by then.

You lost me there. Will that base be useful for colony pods if you put the base on the nut square?

quote: The nutrient is just a straight +2 bonus. Putting terraforming on the nutrient doesn't make the bonus better. The terraforming would improve another square just as well.

Completely disagree with you there. See the thread I linked.

quote: ________________________________________ HongHu, By the way I'm currently uploading a zip file of SMAX about 43MB in size without the sound and movies. When I unzipped it on another computer it ran fine so you can use it to fill in those SMAX files that were corrupted. It has all the files needed to play the game (without sound and movies) aside from the game binaries that you already have. I will put the link up here, when it finishes uploading(3 hours time). Disclaimer: This zip file is only being put up for the purpose of replacing the damaged files of a SMAX installation. The game binaries have been removed to reduce the possiblity of game priacy. It is assumed that you should be in possession of a legal copy of the original Firaxis SMAC and SMAX Games. PS: It's a pity that your SMAX cd got corrupted HongHu Kody __________________________________________________ __ Actually make that 4 hours time. Darn modems and their 3kb upload rates. Kody

Thank you very much, Kody! It is a shame that my SMAX doesn't work.

	07-07-2003 10:14									#349
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think for now say we don't worry about long term terraforming. I doubt we're going to be able to get the WP. Also I doubt that the game will last long enough to get to soil enrichers etc.

Your right about the removal of the nurtient limit, and the +1 nurtient should probably be considered.

Colony pod 27 minerals
Base growth 18 nutrients

(With planned)
Colony pod 24 minerals
Base growth 14 nutrients

Hrmm I won't bother writing the rest of the stuff I did. I basically ran a little simulation.

Basically I agree with you now HongHu.

Head for the river square east of the nutrient. The reason why I changed my mind was realising that having the city grow to 2, and having the 2nd worker use the mine gets us more colony pods in the long run. So we ALWAYS have a worker on the nutrient and when the city is size 2 we have a worker running on the mine.

So that 1 turn moving the colony pod probably isn't worth it. When the formers finish the mine/road near kommie city one goes to forest to nurtient near Voltairograd and the other to farm then road the nutrient in the valley.

Have you tried this link yet HongHu?
http://alphadimensions.net/~john/SMAX.zip
I think you missed it in my previous post.
With these files and your terranx.exe binary you should be able to get SMAX working.

quote: quote: Also in the long run when we've finished all the terraforming we'll be building sea colony pods. That base won't be useful for colony pods by then. You lost me there. Will that base be useful for colony pods if you put the base on the nut square?

When we get advanced terraforming most of the land masses will already be colonised. So land colony pods won't be as useful. Putting the base on the nut square allows us to float colony pods down the river faster to the other size of our landmass. However, this can be fixed when we get a former to road that square.

Kody

	07-07-2003 12:06									#350
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quote: Consider building a sensor array on any tile before you found a base on it - that 50% defense bonus gets multiplied by all the perim defs, etc etc (it does slow down expansion a tad, as it usually takes 3 to 4 turns to build the array, but especially valuable in coastal bases) - and it can't be used by attacking forces as an open-site sensor array can

So we should start making making more formers and place sensor arrays on our outlying new bases. I've noticed you can start a sensor array then plant a new base and the sensor array will be completed under the base.

I think we should try to plant a sensor array under every new base from now on. Especially the seaside bases.

Kody

	07-07-2003 19:19									#351
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quote: Originally posted by Kody I think for now say we don't worry about long term terraforming. I doubt we're going to be able to get the WP. Also I doubt that the game will last long enough to get to soil enrichers etc. Your right about the removal of the nurtient limit, and the +1 nurtient should probably be considered. Colony pod 27 minerals Base growth 18 nutrients (With planned) Colony pod 24 minerals Base growth 14 nutrients Hrmm I won't bother writing the rest of the stuff I did. I basically ran a little simulation. Basically I agree with you now HongHu. Head for the river square east of the nutrient. The reason why I changed my mind was realising that having the city grow to 2, and having the 2nd worker use the mine gets us more colony pods in the long run. So we ALWAYS have a worker on the nutrient and when the city is size 2 we have a worker running on the mine. So that 1 turn moving the colony pod probably isn't worth it. When the formers finish the mine/road near kommie city one goes to forest to nurtient near Voltairograd and the other to farm then road the nutrient in the valley.

Wow look at all those numbers. Once you took them out I was almost going to say that I'll give up because it's almost unthinkable that I would be able to produce counter numbers. But I'm glad that we are now in agreement.

quote: Have you tried this link yet HongHu? http://alphadimensions.net/~john/SMAX.zip I think you missed it in my previous post. With these files and your terranx.exe binary you should be able to get SMAX working.

I didn't have time yesterday. But I'll do it tonight. Please don't remove anything yet. Thanks!

quote: You lost me there. Will that base be useful for colony pods if you put the base on the nut square?

I was trying to say that no matter if the base was on the nut square it will not be useful to produce sea colony pod. However I do believe that with the high nut and high mineral producing cabability this base could be very useful. In fact we could use it to do secret projects and outproduce the AI. We may actually get WP if we hurry up. Produce one more colony pod and then start SP. By then the farm and mine/road should be completed.

	07-07-2003 19:26									#352
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quote: Originally posted by Kody So we should start making making more formers and place sensor arrays on our outlying new bases. I've noticed you can start a sensor array then plant a new base and the sensor array will be completed under the base. I think we should try to plant a sensor array under every new base from now on. Especially the seaside bases. Kody

I've been doing that for quite some time. The important thing is that you need to time it well. It is not worth it if the colony pod has to wait until the former finishes the job. We need more formers.

	08-07-2003 05:42									#353
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Okay so after the former builds the farm at kommie city it immediately heads to the next base site of the colony pod that will be built at the hive.
The former hopefully will be able to build a sensor in time.

Just need to figure out where to put the new colony pod from the hive.

Also you can't build a sensor under a base. For some reason I thought you could, but when I checked I found you can't.

Also the former from St. Voltairesburg after finishing the forest it should probably head for the new base site near voltairograd. That's the river square south of the bay south-east of the nutrient.

Finally when the next base is planted rush build another former? That way it can forest the nutrient then head off and put another sensor array a new base site.

The former that's currently doing the mine near Kommie city should instead head towards the minerals and do the mine. While the other doing the road near Kommie should Forest the nutrient used by Voltairograd.

Anyone have any idea where to put the new colony pod from the hive?

	08-07-2003 08:39									#354
	Got spare money?

Cheers! The people and party has succeeded! Any interruption efforts on my SMAX by the counter revolution forces have met their doomed fortune of failure. Sincere thanks to all comrades that have contribute to the successful campain against the enemies of the state. Kody, you can removed the files now.

	08-07-2003 10:04									#355
	Put an end to popups!

I want the Hive pod to be placed between the hive so that the monolith and the special bonus can be used now.

	08-07-2003 10:41									#356
	Suffering from ads?

Once we cannot spread out (probably due to lack of ships), it's time to fill in.

	08-07-2003 15:24									#357
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If nothing really important needs to be decided should I just do the turn?

	08-07-2003 18:44									#358
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quote: If nothing really important needs to be decided should I just do the turn?

I will be around after 6 (11 hours), so if the chairman hasn't run the turn by then, we can do it together there John (and whoever else is online at the time).

- Rokossovky

	08-07-2003 18:51									#359
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I suggest the colony pod should make use of the free minerals to build either a former or colony pod straight away. So we need scouts or something sent to that site to defend the next city.

	08-07-2003 19:32									#360
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Rokossovky I will be around after 6 (11 hours), so if the chairman hasn't run the turn by then, we can do it together there John (and whoever else is online at the time). - Rokossovky

I'll be available 9pm my time. Can we do a turn chat around that time?