09-07-2003 19:37									#391
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Claire Forlani's Hole of Aspiration? - Hmm probably not that one

	09-07-2003 19:39									#392
	Remove this text

Vev, Vev.

	09-07-2003 19:39									#393
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I was thinking more naughty and suggestive.

After this all dies down I want to see the private forum thread numbers and posts etc. I guess I'll asked Googlie in a week. I think we've done pretty well the last 2 weeks in generating large amounts of text disproportionate to the number of people that actually post here.

Kody

	09-07-2003 19:42									#394
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, I was using a perfectly normal Hive city name, just hideously out of context.

	09-07-2003 20:36									#395
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Kody I was thinking more naughty and suggestive. After this all dies down I want to see the private forum thread numbers and posts etc. I guess I'll asked Googlie in a week. I think we've done pretty well the last 2 weeks in generating large amounts of text disproportionate to the number of people that actually post here. Kody

It is amazing how much spam two people discussing OT matters in a forum can generate.

	09-07-2003 20:51									#396
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Kody The pact is successful Kody

	10-07-2003 21:38									#397
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Kody:

It took me so long to get the uploads right that in the meantime Mongoose of the drones has replied via e-mail - copied me - so this below might just be an academic exercise - but still worth doing

********************************

Here is a suggestion (which may only occur in the minds of those who design scenarios and games - and buster and mark both fall into that category)

Firstly, you need to establish some territorial rights to the Sunny Mesa (which currently falls outside of your blue border line)

So go to tile reference 14:26 and select the left hand menu, and map and then Erase landmark

The message Erase the Sunny Mesa landmark will then pop up, with a yes/no choice. Choose yes. The landmark disappears

Now go to tile 13:23, and select menu and map again, this time name Landmark. At the prompt, enter The Plateau of the Revolution or some other equally long name, and hit enter

(Googlie pontification: If you guys had done your due diligence you’d already have names for all those landmarks, hills, rivers, bays etc

You now have “naming rights” to the old Sunny Mesa, now “The Plateau of the Revolution”

Now go to tile 13:17, menu and map and Name landmark.

Call this River of the Hive Proletariat or somesuch wordy name (all you are trying to do is get the name as far left as possible, but you only have a limited number of characters to work with)

(I’ve also suggested some other landmark names to set out your territorial claims)

Now, when negotiating the stall, you can ask the drones to move their scout next turn to the west (tile 15:21, but the # is hidden in the tile info square at higher resolutions) and then to head up the River of the Hive Proletariat and rendezvous with their trannie for offloading from your continent (Googlie note - now irrelevant in light of the recent Mongoose e-mail)

Attached is my rendering of the map after these suggested placenames

Last edited by Googlie on 10-07-2003 at 21:44

	10-07-2003 22:31									#398
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Googlie in the meantime Mongoose of the drones has replied via e-mail - copied me -

What is the new development?

Would it be ok if GooglieGod share with us the email since it maybe 3am Kody's time? Another 3 or more hours of waiting will kill me.

	10-07-2003 23:51									#399
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I posted it in the drone Negotiations forum

	11-07-2003 08:47									#400
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Turn update 2120

There was no turn chat, as I stated a long time ago there wasn't anything that urgently needed doing at our bases. It was mainly the drone negotiations.

I stripped the scout from Voltigrad city and moved it so they wouldn't be able to gain the rocky ground. See the drone negotiations thread for the map.

Vev and me were discussing the possibility of the drones actually stealing land from under us. We might have to delay the city that would have been built in the valley and move the city further west to the monolith. That way they won't be able to build on our land.

I guessed that the base north-west of volatigrade would be where we can send the next hive colony pod. So I sent a former to construct a sensor array there. Mainly choose that as the next base site because we need to spread west as fast as possible before the drones can raise objections (it is our continent after all).

I've just remembered that when we get planned Kommie city will grow. We might be able to make a colony pod there, and plant a city somewhere to the south-west of Kommie city

The other former that was doing the farm south-east of kommie city I didn't have a clue what to do with. So it's currently constructing solar panels. I'm pretty sure formers keep terraforming turns and we can stop the solar panels and move it somewhere else. It'll be able to finish another improvement elsewhere sooner so no loss in former turns. Perhaps the 3rd next base site could be two south of the hive. We could send that former there and construct a sensor array.

Kody
__________________________________________________


Okay I admit the reason why I haven't posted a turn update picture was because I saved over the original save file.

Kody

Last edited by Kody on 11-07-2003 at 11:26

	11-07-2003 15:33									#401
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The former to be sent over to the proposed base NW of Voltairograd, should be the one that is currently defungusing a square. I also suggest the former working the mine next batch of jobs should be working on the rocky nutrient bonus - level - farm - solar to make it 4-1-4

	11-07-2003 18:52									#402
	Support Apolyton

Base order suggestion:
1. the colony pod still should go to the valley site to found Jamski Clovek. The sensor being built on end of Voltairo River (HongHu KongHu) need 4 turns to finish. We don't want to wait that long to build a new base.
This base should be able to produce a new colony pod in about 9 turns?
2. The next pod finished (I don't know which city is closer to growth?) should go to HongHu KongHu.
3. The third one should be the river turning square west of Jamski Clovek that is bt munoment and the nut bonus. The min bonus is also in the base range so this base (Rokossovki CMC Headqauter) will be pretty good.

	11-07-2003 18:59									#403
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Taraforming suggestion:
1. I agree that the HongHu KongHu sensor is a good idea.
2. We shouldn't worry about building solor panel right now. The former should build roads for the future land bridge base site (Kody's Glory). My understanding is that once the former moves it loses all the taraforming it accumulated. But we'll have to forgo the one turn solor panel because we can't wait that long to start other more urgent jobs.
3. I recommend for the former currently working on mines the next patch of job should be farm the nut special for Jamski Clovek for it to get to rapidest growth. Levelize the rocky nut square is not a bad idea but it takes quite a long time and right now we need more things done quickly.

	11-07-2003 19:11									#404
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

"3. The third one should be the river turning square west of Jamski Clovek that is bt munoment and the nut bonus. The min bonus is also in the base range so this base (Rokossovki CMC Headqauter) will be pretty good."

I agree with you on the three colony pod sites.

We have enough time to build the sensor array at the HongHu KongHu city site. The colony pod will require some time to move from the hive city to the site.

Kody

	11-07-2003 19:12									#405
	Tired of ads?

Tech exchange opinion:
Kody has had an excellent point about the tech cost.
We only need IE to get IA. IB gives us Synthmetal Armor and the ME SP. The ME SP I don't think we should attemp to get since Drone's already started it, I don't think it is not essential for us to compete with them for it. The Synthmetal armor may be good for our military though. I don't know we have to have more discussion on that. I would like to hear what Marshal's opinion on that is.

Other than that, I think we could skip IB, and use our IN to exchange there IE. Then when they have flexibility we could give them PN to change for it. We shouldn't give them PN any early than necessary, keep in mind this is not a pact. They'll probably finish their own research on PN though I think. Then we could give them IA to exchange flexibility. Remember they really like IN and PN. So we shouldn't let them have it too easily. From reading Kody's previous email to Drone I have a feeling that Kody is promising to give them PN when we have it for free. We shouldn't do it unless it is a permanent pact. They could very easily use that against us. The probing is exactly what we want to avoid and we know that they have to do it to make up for their research penalty.

	11-07-2003 19:36									#406
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think they're going to be able to keep tech parity with us. From their response I'm certain they have more bases than us. Secondly running free market they have more energy than us.

The tech details will be ironed out at a later date. If you read my thread we definately don't want any techs yet if we want to get fast industrial automation. We can half the cost of industrial automation if we setup this deal correctly rather than just trade techs normally.

In my opinion the best treaty for us will be, we immediately give them information networks and press accept. In exchange next turn they put industrial economics for us and press accept. We wait until we finish planetary networks then accept their industrial economics. Then switch to industrial automation at a lowered cost.

The last email I've sent to them proposes a one tech to one tech trading. The other post you were refering to was if we were pacted with them and want to fast track both our tech rates.

I wasn't proposing a free tech for them. Simply we want the techs given to us delayed so that we get cheaper tech costs.

Kody

	11-07-2003 19:42									#407
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes that is exactly why I said that you have an excellent point about tech cost. I agree 100% that we should try to reduce the tech cost by timing the exchange well and skip unecessary techs. Sounds like we are in agreement with the 1 tech with 1 tech thing unless pact also.

	11-07-2003 19:46									#408
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I say wait for a while for others to weigh in regarding whether we want the IB. (I'm glad that we are on the same page but I would still like to hear what others think.) Then give them the clear list with order to avoid any confusion. Maybe you can even post your email before sending them out for us to look at.

	11-07-2003 20:01									#409
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The main problem is only you and vev have any kind of decent response time. I can paste the email wait 6 hours getting only a response from you and vev.

Also nobody has still said anything about the question I raised in the negotiation thread. Do I make them the offer to co-ordinate tech research so that we get important techs like industrial automation faster?

At the moment we're still very much on single one on one tech trading.

Kody

Last edited by Kody on 11-07-2003 at 20:07

	11-07-2003 21:09									#410
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I know. There has to be a limit to how long you could wait. My feeling is that either the Chairman or the Marshal should show up one time or another within 12 hours. So maybe that could be the limit? The turn's already passed, and Drone's turn will be a while so we are not in a big hurry as before. Although we do need to give them sufficient time to react to our proposal. Could you draft our final offer and post it in the forum?

As for co-ordinate tech research my understanding is it is normally done with a pact. But my opinion is we can always try to persude them switch their direction of research since we'll be staying on our route anyway, so no harm to us whatsoever.

Last edited by Snowflake on 11-07-2003 at 21:36

	11-07-2003 21:31									#411
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The final offer depends on them.

We first need to know if they want treaty, pact of tempory convienance, or pernament pact.

Co-ordinating research I figured is something that can gain us significant advantages. Think of the cost difference for industrial automation. 192 compared to 107.

Kody

	11-07-2003 21:39									#412
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I thought we are going to do it anyway even if its one tech to one tech exchange?

Before they say if they want to go permanent pact we could still offer them something more defined in the treaty, tech exchange range? That's what I want to see.

	11-07-2003 21:44									#413
	Put an end to popups!

Read my previous message to them.

Kody

	11-07-2003 22:33									#414
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Kody Read my previous message to them. Kody

Your previous email was exactly why I feel that some points may need to be more defined.

quote: We agree to give you planetary networks as soon as we finish it, and if we are able to choose industrial automation we will immediately give it to you if you give us flexibility when you achieve it.

That's where I got the idea that you were saying that we'll give PN to them for free. Also you said give us both tech, you didn't mention that we might only want IE and not IB or if they only like to offer one which one we would prefer. I thought you were going to send another email in the treaty, tech exchange range to indicate what exact techs we like to exchange such as IN for IE and IA for flexibility. You kind of indicated the latter one (IA for flexibility) but you didn't say it has to be the same time. Sounds like we'll give it to them first before they give flexibility to us. If it is not a permanent pact, I don't think we should do it. They could very easily get our tech and then renounce the treaty. We'll lose too much in that case.

Kody you have raised suspicions several times that I probably haven't read your post or misread your post. I know sometimes my mouth opens before my brain tells it to do so, but trust me I would not make mistakes like confusing a god and a mortal. In addition, how could I have skipped such an important post as yours. No, seriously, I always try to read all relevant posts when I make my comment.

	12-07-2003 04:04									#415
	Inflate your Upload Space

The last email was.

We have information networks currently on the table.

You give us your industrial base and industrial economics. When we get planetary networks we will give it to you (eg we give it to them when we get it, late payment for one of the above techs). Then we will trade industrial automation if they can get flexibility.

So tech trading is the 2 industries for 2 networks. Then industrial automation for flexibility. The industrial automation is worth more than flexibility, but if they agree to help us with our fast track tech method it's worth it.

Kody

	12-07-2003 05:03									#416
	Suffering from ads?

This is what I've suggesting happens in our next turn.

__________________________________________________
_____
Pre-Turn 2121

(We can add terraforming turns to formers by only partially moving them then ending their move with a terraform function)
* 24,22 cancel former action. Move former to 23,21 (north-west). Build sensor array. Cancel action.
- heading to build sensor array future base site 18, 16

* 28,28 cancel former action. Move former to 26,24 (energy resource)
- heading to build sensor array future base site 29, 23 (hive colony pod in 8 turns heads here)

* 29,19 colony pod -> 25,21
- heading to build base at site 18, 16

* Open "The Hive" base, select colony pod. Add stockpile energy after colony pod.
* Open "Kommunizma City" base, rush buy former for 10 EC.

If drone scout seems to have withdrawn
* 17,23 scout -> 17,21 (This scout escorts the drones out)

If drone scout is at 15,21 then scout has truely withdrawn
* 19,19 scout heads back to voltairograd
* 20,20 colony pod -> 18,20 (heading to build next base)
* 9,23 unity rover -> 8,19 monolith for repairs
* 11,25 unity rover -> 14,24 moving north to explore.
* 7,15 scout -> 8,14 (exploring)

If drone scout hasn't withdrawn
Need to discuss with other members what to do.

Finally Googlie's landmark renaming.
Also I want to name a city after whatever the most popular naughty name is in Pravda. Heck lets rename all of them for a year, we can change them back later, and we can do some interesting pravda gags.
__________________________________________________
__

Let the pre-turn chat being

Kody

Last edited by Kody on 12-07-2003 at 16:33

	12-07-2003 07:14									#417
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Kody The last email was. We have information networks currently on the table. You give us your industrial base and industrial economics. When we get planetary networks we will give it to you (eg we give it to them when we get it, late payment for one of the above techs). Then we will trade industrial automation if they can get flexibility. So tech trading is the 2 industries for 2 networks. Then industrial automation for flexibility. The industrial automation is worth more than flexibility, but if they agree to help us with our fast track tech method it's worth it. Kody

Thanks for clearification Kody. I'm a little confused in that you say for fast track we should not get IB but seems you were also suggesting we exchange PN for IB. (We definetaly needs to let them know if they want to give us one tech for now it has to be IE instead of IB.) For the next round IA for flexibility, a common way that is done is that the faction with the less valuable tech will pay some cash which percivable will be accepted by the drones because they should have more money.

BTW, I wasn't able to get our previous turn downloaded before the drones deleted it from the public forum. Could you post it here? This way I would be able to look at the coordinations you talk about in the other post. Thanks!

	12-07-2003 09:11									#418
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I saved over the original file I'm afraid.

Kody

	12-07-2003 09:39									#419
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Here it is:

Hive, 2120.zip

	12-07-2003 11:13									#420
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks!