20-05-2003 19:00									#151
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This guy stepped over the line with his little prank, but I would still call it just a childhood prank. The guy should talk to the police, ask the lady for forgiveness and the guy's parents should pay a fine of a couple of hundred of dollars. End of story.

	20-05-2003 19:15									#152
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That might be appropriate if the kid set fire to the neighbor's hedge, or hot-wired his SUV and reversed it through the back of his garage and across his flowerbed.

But not this. No normal kid plays "pranks" like this.

Perhaps he should "playfully" be thrown to a full-grown gator, just to see how fast he can swim? What fun!

	20-05-2003 19:42									#153
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All serial killers engaged in the torture and killing of animals (specificall pet animals) before their "curiousity" led them to doing the same thing to humans.

This is not a "kid's prank." It was the torture and killing of a companion animal. It is a precursor to more serious deviant behavior, a symptom of something very seriously wrong with this kid. I do not believe the father who says the kid has been crying about it. This kid lacks the ability to empathyze either with the animal he tortured or with the human whose companion has been taken away in such a cruel manner. A psychiatric evaluation is definately called for.

If it's a choice between saving a human or my beloved pet, I will save the human, though I will be terribly upset about it. Humans are more important than animals, even companion animals. If someone tortured and killed one of my cats, I wouldn't kill him, but baring the intervention of the police, I'd probably beat him silly with my baseball bat.

Lincoln is correct in what will happen to this kid if he is tried and punished as an adult. I don't think prison is the correct punishment for this kid. At the very least, send him to juvie, but I really think there is something seriously dangerous about this kid.

	20-05-2003 20:00									#154
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"The law has never sought to guarantee that people weren't rat bastards to each other. Or to even punish rat bastardness in general."

Jack the Bodiless brings about a good point here, it is nonsense to believe the mental/emotional trauma or damage has no role to play in the law. If the woman does not become pregnant, the primary damage to her is mental/emotional trauma. A similar logic goes behind hate crimes- if you just spraypaint your initals, you do minimal vandalism damage, whereas if you spraypaint "KILL ALL NIGGERS" you will be punished more harshly because of the fear you would cause to the black community. So to say infliction of mental damage can't be a legal basis for giving him a tougher sentence is absurd.

	20-05-2003 20:00									#155
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I just killed a spider. It was crawling across my desk and I squished it with a book. It was no threat to me, I killed it simply because I hate spiders. I feel no remorse for killing it. Am I a murderer? Should I be sent to prison? Am I in danger of being a serial killer? Am I better or worse than the kid in the news story? Why? btw, this isn't necessarily a troll. I'm curious about the answer.

If you can't figure out the difference between insects/arachnids, etc., and intelligent mammals who are human pets, then you have a problem.

	20-05-2003 20:01									#156
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Cats and gators? Geez, what ever happened to a magnifying glass and ants? As with all criminal activities, intent is just as important as the act itself. Clearly the kid set out to torture and kill a self-aware creature for no other reason than for his own sick and twisted pleasure. This is clearly deserving of some form of punishment, more than just a slap on the wrist.

	20-05-2003 20:46									#157
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The cat owners should jump the kid one night and beat him for a minute with bars of soap wrapped in towels... give him some measure of the terror and pain the cat must have suffered. But don't kill him - give him a chance to recognize his errors and repent. If he fails to do so (tortures/kills another pet), then definite institutionalization (prison/psych facility).

Civilized humans should always take steps to avoid cruelity to animals (and people), even when they have to be killed. No reason for a cow to be terrified in line of a slaughterhouse, no reason for a condemned criminal to go out crapping his pants in fear. If there's one thing humanity should try to achieve, it's the cessation (or at least reduction) of cruelty.

That said, anyone ever intentionally hurts my dog, they will die. Period. But I'll try to make it quick and painless. Unless I choose to let them live, and learn and repent, in which case the punishment will be excruciating.

	20-05-2003 20:47									#158
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Any one see the movie Jackass?

They need to make him walk a tight rope over gators, or even better get a little one to bite him on the nipple.

	20-05-2003 21:03									#159
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I couldn't care less for the cat. One animal eating another is the way of nature. But if some punk did that to my cat I would have a long serious discussion with him. The real insult was towards the owner of the cat.

	20-05-2003 21:22									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre I couldn't care less for the cat. One animal eating another is the way of nature. But if some punk did that to my cat I would have a long serious discussion with him. The real insult was towards the owner of the cat.

If you've ever watched a cat toy with a mouse, it's hard to argue that they are just reacting to the food chain. Male cats are also known to seek out and kill kittens, not for food, but to make the female go back into heat which provides them with a breeding oppurtunity. While techinically you can't call the first situation "torture" and the second "murder", it's clear that cats often behave in nasty ways.

Still doesn't let the boy off the hook of course, however one wonders how much of his behavior is the result of some natural inner urge much like a cat's.

	20-05-2003 21:36									#161
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quote: Perhaps he should "playfully" be thrown to a full-grown gator, just to see how fast he can swim? What fun!

The mere fact that you suggest this, even jokingly, sickens me.

Humans>>Pets,monkeys>>Other creatures.

	20-05-2003 21:41									#162
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There's something about Poly and cats. People lose grip when it comes to kitties.

	20-05-2003 22:39									#163
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Kitties just make me tighten my grip even harder

	20-05-2003 22:59									#164
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quote: All serial killers engaged in the torture and killing of animals (specificall pet animals) before their "curiousity" led them to doing the same thing to humans.

That's hardly an argument, but generally, I agree.

	20-05-2003 23:14									#165
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There is a definite correlation between abuse and torture of animals as a child/adolescent and future violent criminality.

	20-05-2003 23:22									#166
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I don't know about other posters, but I do not automatically elevate all humans above all animals just because of their species. There are definitely some animals worth more than people in terms of their contribution to the world, even to their contribution to a few or single persons. In my eyes, being a sadistic son-of-a-bitch who stomps cats and throws them to wild 'gators drops you down a few pegs on the worthiness chart; at that level, you have to redeem yourself by making some positive social/worldly contributions to move back up past the animals you so casually kill for amusement.

All humans are not equal. And don't give me any "soul" arguments - if you can't point to and measure it, don't use it as evidence.

	21-05-2003 11:03									#167
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quote: Originally posted by ajbera There is a definite correlation between abuse and torture of animals as a child/adolescent and future violent criminality.

Any evidence?

I would say there is a definite correlation between watching Disney cartoons (or any cartoon with small cute fluffy animals behaving like humans for that matter) and overreacting on this issue.

	21-05-2003 11:21									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I'd say this kid is comparable to a juvenile rapist. Like others have said. Get a ****ing sense of proportion! Unless you mean he raped the cat . Cats and humans are different things, don't cha know?

It's an attempt to terrorize someone, like burning a cross on their lawn but much more personal. I'd be more optimistic about this kid if he killed a stray animal. Not knowing that killing someone's pet is going to be traumatic shows a real lack of empathy, knowing what will happen and doing it anyway shows a pretty well-developed sense of cruelty.

	21-05-2003 11:32									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln It was kind of comical to see Fido in his seatbelt looking out the window as the human beings stood on the sidewalk -- rejected because of a dog. That is the American culture nowdays. "Dogs are people too, you know."

Or as I like to say, "People are dogs too."

	21-05-2003 13:33									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: Perhaps he should "playfully" be thrown to a full-grown gator, just to see how fast he can swim? What fun! The mere fact that you suggest this, even jokingly, sickens me. Humans>>Pets,monkeys>>Other creatures.

I was trying to make a point: that "pranks" which involve killing aren't in the same league as "pranks" which merely involve destruction of property.

It was Hurricane's view that sadistic killing is "just a prank", not mine.

	21-05-2003 13:42									#171
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln All this reminds me of a church I attended once. Several people were going to a gathering afterword. Some of the poorer members did not have a car so they asked for a ride. Most were given a ride but some were left behind becuse of the dogs that occupied the front seats of several cars. It was kind of comical to see Fido in his seatbelt looking out the window as the human beings stood on the sidewalk -- rejected because of a dog. That is the American culture nowdays. "Dogs are people too, you know."

Are you perhaps reading too much into that?

Why should a poor person's desire to avoid having to walk (or miss out on the gathering altogether) supersede the dog-owner's desire not to abandon the dog in a neighborhood probably unfamiliar to it, and quite possibly never see it again?

Of course, "why bring the dog along in the first place" is a fair question.

	21-05-2003 14:25									#172
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will a gator eat a incapacitated cat? yes, yes it will.

bravo junior scientist!