20-05-2003 03:06									#1
	Tech Planning -- Please provide input Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We have pretty much established a plan of research that looks like this:

Mapmaking -> Horseback Riding -> Code of Laws -> Republic.

An offer was made to trade CDG Mapmaking for Math & Philosophy. We were extremely worried that their lackluster research would slow us down, so we added a term to the deal that required them to have both techs done within 25 turns.

They wrote us back to ask for 35 turns instead.

My position is this: We need to have Philosophy before we finish Code of Laws, or else this tech deal is pointless. Mathematics we can get later on, but Philosophy is key to our rapid rise to Republic.

If we CANNOT get Philosophy from CDG before finishing Code of Laws, then we should not research HBR and we should research Philosphy on our own.

I'm confident that GCA will accept Philosophy instead of HBR if we ask them. Philo is more tech points, but we still need to ask them. I have asked Whitebandit to do so.

I need to know how long it will take us to finish Code of Laws assuming we will finish MM and then finish HBR. I know this is very speculative, but we need to try to get the best figure possible to figure out what deadline we should give to CDG.

If we can finish Code of Laws in much less than 35 turns, then we should toss aside this whole tech trade idea with CDG. If not, then we will proceed with it.

Please provide us with information and your opinions.

--Togas

	20-05-2003 03:20									#2
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In continuing your thoughts on this Togas, we could have CDG research HBR instead also, that would make us even on all deals except for GCA who we'd owe still one point.



Seperately, I think that we could counter with 30 turns because we could drop our research rate and tinker with it along the way to allow us to gather more gold for upgrades and to plan to finnish CoL by that turn 30.

We wouldn't lose out on not being able to reasearch anything, plus we get some much needed gold for our Swordsmen upgrades.

But, if we are willing to wait till we start researching Republic to build up our gold reserves (thus our Sword upgrades), then we can just set reasearch to 0% (40 turn max to Republic) and gather gold for upgrades and possible buy other techs from the others with our large amount of gold we would have by then. We'd be looking at buying Currency and/or Contruction. Then we can taklk about future deals with CFC. CFC is Scientific so will likely have Monothesism (unless a new patch comes before then) so we could trade Republic + Gold for Monothesim to them.

	20-05-2003 03:26									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Personally, I'd like to see us rush to Republic on max science, and then go max tax during the 40 turn period it will take us to get Republic. This would give us plenty of money for warrior upgrades, but we'd have to wait until the Republic research period to do any mass upgrades. Is that what the Consuls have in mind?

If it's possible to get Republic in a reasonable period of time at max science, we may want to slow down research a bit to give us money for warrior upgrades.

--Togas

	20-05-2003 03:34									#4
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree CFC is Scientific so will likely have Monothesism (unless a new patch comes before then) so we could trade Republic + Gold for Monothesim to them.

This has been fixed as of the last patch- I've gotten Feudalism more than once as a scientific Civ since the last patch came out. (Instant-surprise Med Inf! YAR!)

	20-05-2003 03:44									#5
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Togas, I made some quick and dirty calculations here. I would take it for granted that on 100% research, we would be able to finish MM+HBR+CoL within 30 turns max.

	20-05-2003 03:57									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon This has been fixed as of the last patch- I've gotten Feudalism more than once as a scientific Civ since the last patch came out. (Instant-surprise Med Inf! YAR!)

We are still using 1.14 since the Euro's don't have access to 1.21

	20-05-2003 04:51									#7
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One thing that we need to consider is that the other granary and the 2 barracks will cost us in upkeep, so we won't be able to keep running at 100% research soon.

Also, we will need to take some time off of our research (or run at a reduced reate for a while) to generate the funds to upgrade all of our Warriors. We currently have 7 warriors that need to be upgraded (at a total cost of 280 Gold) and a few more warriors that are in the overall plan to be built. I was thinking about running at 100%taxes for a while after we get MapMaking, but that is an issue that will have to be properly debated and maybe polled on, too.

E_T

	20-05-2003 05:03									#8
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Double post

E_T

Last edited by E_T on 20-05-2003 at 05:08

	20-05-2003 05:29									#9
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Also, we will need to take some time off of our research (or run at a reduced reate for a while) to generate the funds to upgrade all of our Warriors. We currently have 7 warriors that need to be upgraded (at a total cost of 280 Gold) and a few more warriors that are in the overall plan to be built. I was thinking about running at 100%taxes for a while after we get MapMaking, but that is an issue that will have to be properly debated and maybe polled on, too.

This is true - perhaps keeping this in mind, we may not mind CDG "delaying" us with their 35-turn research that much. BTW, considering what they are supposed to research (2 research points = 48 beakers more than us) and what (cities/output) they have at their disposal, I believe those 35 turns sound like a solid and educated estimate from their side.

	20-05-2003 05:36									#10
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Also, speaking of reduced vs. 0% research rate, I would support alternating between full and no research over going on a slightly reduced rate all the time. The result should be the same in the end, but alternating between 0/100% allows us to be flexible with the research plans while on 0%... we would actually cut the periods where we'd be "tied" to a certain research project a bit shorter, gaining extra valuable time for unplanned for tech deals, plan changes etc.

	20-05-2003 12:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree We are still using 1.14 since the Euro's don't have access to 1.21

Don't blame it on all of us! I'm nicely using the US version and the 1.21 patch.

	20-05-2003 12:51									#12
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double post

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 20-05-2003 at 15:55

	20-05-2003 13:09									#13
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triple post.

silly database.

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 20-05-2003 at 15:56

	20-05-2003 13:18									#14
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Please note that all Science Plans can be found here:

click

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 20-05-2003 at 15:57

	20-05-2003 17:38									#15
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Don't blame it on all of us! I'm nicely using the US version and the 1.21 patch.

No, the blame clearly lies with Firaxis/infogrames in their decision not to port the patch to all forms of disk copy protection schemes in use with their game; basically to save them money.

	20-05-2003 23:32									#16
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The specific techs look fine to me. We can curtail research some to build up gold for upgrades as well. Ideally, we could drop down to 10% which still allows progress, then turn it up to our max when we want to do real research again.