23-05-2003 09:32									#31
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You mean like this... +1

	23-05-2003 10:48									#32
	Re: Re: Build Road First Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by HongHu Is the effect of different improvement and/or river cumulative? In other words, if you have a rocky river square, it will take you one extra turn for road even without anything built. The question is if it will take you two extra turns if you build a mine first?

No, it's still only one extra turn. It doesn't seem like much at first, but consider the long run and how much more that one Former can do by saving that one turn, and multiply that by how many Formers you have... It adds up.

Also, I thought of an exception to "road first" but couldn't get back to edit my post:
If the square is Rocky and you intend to reduce (level) it to Rolling, do that first, then build the Road before anything else. You will save one turn. It's easier to grade the Road through Rolling terrain than Rocky.

The extra turn still applies if you have The Weather Paradigm.

It does eventually disappear later in the game when you have more "Centauri" techs and/or Elite Super Formers. If you have The Weather Paradigm, the Super Formers don't have to be Elite. But by then you're already in the habit of "road first"

	23-05-2003 11:03									#33
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gwillybj, Road first has another advantage: It's easier to bring in reinforcement. If you're using three formers to change a rocky square to Farms+Condensor, you save one turn by building road first (good timing assumed).

	23-05-2003 17:21									#34
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~Shrugs~ The road first rule also helps out when you want to bring in reinforcements to speed up the terraforming. Send in a former to road then gang tackle the needed change. It saves a lot of time. I have formers that are dedicated to road building.

	23-05-2003 17:22									#35
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+ 1 post!!!

	23-05-2003 18:45									#36
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quote: Originally posted by BustaMike You mean like this... +1

exactly

	23-05-2003 18:46									#37
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On "road first" -- I did not know about the extra former time but had usually built the road first for the reinforcement, gang former and quick escape reasons

	23-05-2003 18:46									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Flare + 1 post!!!

Flare!

	23-05-2003 18:50									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber On "road first" -- I did not know about the extra former time but had usually built the road first for the reinforcement, gang former and quick escape reasons

Ok further question on "road first" for speeding reinforcement by ganging former. Suppose you let a former build road, before he is finished will that give you the road benefit for the nest former? If you have to wait until the road is finished then this former is available for whatever the next reinforcement. Why need another former then?

	23-05-2003 19:00									#40
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Other simple questions. Anybody has a list of simple rules that a beginner can browse through so that she won't waste her precious turn advantage simply because she is not familiar with all the rules? For example, a base cannot be built on xenofungus (Can a base be built on a river? rocky area? ) and a forest cannot be plant on rocky area, the first colony pod should not be rushed unless you have more than 1 population, you have to save some money for SE changes, etc. Any more like these? I know all of you guys may not even need to think about these stuff because you already know them by heart but I have made a lot of this kind of mistakes I guess because I'm new and always act too hasty.

	23-05-2003 19:34									#41
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Other simple questions. Anybody has a list of simple rules that a beginner can browse through so that she won't waste her precious turn advantage simply because she is not familiar with all the rules? For example, a base cannot be built on xenofungus (Can a base be built on a river? rocky area? ) and a forest cannot be plant on rocky area, the first colony pod should not be rushed unless you have more than 1 population, you have to save some money for SE changes, etc. Any more like these? I know all of you guys may not even need to think about these stuff because you already know them by heart but I have made a lot of this kind of mistakes I guess because I'm new and always act too hasty.

are you new to the genre? some of these like not building a new colony pod (settler) too fast are familiar from Civ2. Others are more SMAC specific (like it taking longer to build a road where there are improvements)

I seem to be smashing the AI on my first really extended game at librarian level, so i probably wont be asking for additional tips till i get stuck on the next level.

	23-05-2003 19:48									#42
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The first former gives the full terraforming time. the second cuts it in half. ech additional terraformer subtracts 1 turn from the terraforming time. For roads, try two formers.

	23-05-2003 19:49									#43
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You can put a city on a river, but not a rocky or xenofungus square.

	23-05-2003 19:51									#44
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Hey, HongHu. Is this better for me?

	23-05-2003 20:05									#45
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Place bases on the most arid land available since the underlying terrain is irrelevant to base square production EXCEPT

1.specials and landmarks will increase base square production
2. Placing a base on a river will increase energy production in the base square
3. as stated previously, you cannot found a base on fungus or rocky squares

So found the base on the flat arid square and work the moist/rainy rolling one



Other advice

1. Crawlers are good
2. Crawlers are GOOD
3. CRAWLERS ARE GOOD

	23-05-2003 20:29									#46
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Good to see Comrade HongHu's geting some sensible advice for once Keep it up boys, you're helping the Glorious Hive in the ACDG

-Jam

	23-05-2003 20:57									#47
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Hey, Jamski. For once I am giving advice, instead of taking it!

	23-05-2003 20:58									#48
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Long live the University of Planet! Down with the Hive!

	23-05-2003 20:59									#49
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Oh, +1 post!

	23-05-2003 21:06									#50
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I make that +3 posts Mr Flare

There's also the never-fail strat of covering everything with forests (after treefarms and hybridforests are built) Its good because you don't have to think.

-Jam

	23-05-2003 21:16									#51
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Think? What is Think? I knew that I knew that when I was new! Now, think harder! what is think?

	23-05-2003 21:17									#52
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Yes, the forest & forget method works very well. I often start with that to get my new bases going, then my more advanced ones mine, borehole, & farm / Condenser / Soil enricher the whole area after the base has gotten somewhere!

	23-05-2003 21:22									#53
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quote: 1. Crawlers are good 2. Crawlers are GOOD 3. CRAWLERS ARE GOOD

Flubber, you're only quite right. Correct is

CRAWLERS ARE GOOD!!!!
(unless the game gets too easy for you)



Other advice:
- Take care of bureaucracy drones (you'll find the formula in the datalinks. For a huge map on transcend with normal efficiency the limit is 9 bases). If you build too many bases, you'll get drones due to the size of your empire. In higher levels at least this can kill all your productivity.
- Remember to rush everything if you have the money (except a too early colony pod).
- Worms can give a little (sometimes bigger, if you're low on cash) extra income if you attack them.

And Flare, Jamski, if you post too obviously only to increase your post count, the moderators may decide to give you a PCR (= post count reduction). Please give others fun too on your way to king.

	23-05-2003 21:34									#54
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Adalbertus, Jamski is already a king. But I will bow to your wisdom!

P.S. - I will reign it in. ~WEG~ It was fun while it lasted.

	23-05-2003 22:06									#55
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Adalbertus, ordinarily I would bow to your superior wisdom, but I think you have a misspelling in your post --

CRAWLERS ARE GOD.

HungHo: More tips for your early game:

- Your first unit built in every base should be a former, if possible, rush built, if you have the credits. (If you're playing Morgan, or are otherwise innundated with cash, tanks may be better first, ymmv).

- If you've got the former time, consider plunking a Sensor, Condenser or Eschelon Mirror in your base square. Yes, they still work once the base is planted.

	23-05-2003 23:43									#56
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CEO, you've won.

I never tested placing a Mirror or Condenser on a future base site. I'm playing specialist heavy, where I've got Condensors on every other tile, and no solar collectors. I crawl nutrients and turn all citizens except two to librarians or other stuff. The two remaining citizens are on Boreholes for the mins. (I don't know who discovered this strategy, maybe it was Ned.)
Advantages:
- Large bases without riots
- Specialists are not subjet to loss due to inefficiency
The profit of non-riot is not that large if you've got a high Police rating.

	23-05-2003 23:53									#57
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All Worship the Almight Crawlers!!!










The all specialist approach can be very time consuming though. Also, Commerce income suffers greatly doing that approach. OTOH, it is ***VERY*** effective if done right.

	24-05-2003 00:04									#58
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Well, actually I was posting on-topic Mr Adalbertus, suggesting the "all forests" strat. As I prefer to work squares and use crawlers to bring in minerals and energy from boreholes or mines out side the base radius, this is my preferred strat. I like to play the green-planet game.

Or the other blanket terraforming strat is to become a fungus farmer. Of course you need to get a few techs, and it helps to be Deirdre and to run green (+cybernetic) Then you can get VERY nice allround production, and with the Xenoempathy Dome its even like free roads, cloaking device and bunkers in every square. Time to get down with planet, folks Also you don't have to worry about the clean mineral limit. Another fungal bloom? Oh, thanks

-Jam

	24-05-2003 00:06									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Flare Hey, HongHu. Is this better for me?

No. But this may be.

	24-05-2003 00:13									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I make that +3 posts Mr Flare There's also the never-fail strat of covering everything with forests (after treefarms and hybridforests are built) Its good because you don't have to think. -Jam

I also vagluey remember reading somewhere that in the late game fungus is actually more productive than forest or something like that?

Oh I just saw your other post.