25-05-2003 00:32									#91
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I personally believe they ought to abolish the law against display of religious symbols in schools and allow Muslim girls to wear their scarves. My reasoning follows.

As to the wisdom of the law in the first place, I understand the arguments put forth here by the French that their law was necessary because of the excessive interference of religion in French politics. I also understand the argument that for a thousand years the French have been trying to forge a nation, a common culture, out of a disparate people, Celtic, Roman and Frank. But clearly today France is a nation. And simply based upon the American experience, a little religious freedom of expression in schools will not bring the nation to a grinding halt.

But they still is a question about whether it is better to have a school uniforms. The central argument is that this promotes equality in education in a society that has both rich and poor going to school, whether or not the school is public or private. I think there is some force to this argument.

But even if schools have uniforms, the purpose for the uniforms as nothing to do with the suppression of expression of religion. I would therefore permit the Muslim girls to wear their scarves even if schools required uniforms.

Finally, I do not understand the argument that education of kids can only take place in an environment of complete suppression of individualism. I firmly believe that the classroom must have order and discipline. But in areas of religion and politics, young students should be able to have a view which is different from what is being taught.

So, where I come out is that the scarves should be permitted and the law that forbids their wearing should be abolished.

	26-05-2003 18:43									#92
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quote: The difference between a headscarf and a pendant is that a headscarf is obvious enough to be considered a religious expression.

And a yarmulke is not? What about a crucifix over the shirt rather than under. These are all forms of religious expression, so it does not make much sense to ban the one and permit the rest.

Secondly, you have not made a case for how the headscarves interfere with the education of the students. Without this, I can see no reason to restrict this expression of religion.

	26-05-2003 18:52									#93
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 And a yarmulke is not? What about a crucifix over the shirt rather than under. These are all forms of religious expression, so it does not make much sense to ban the one and permit the rest.

I don't know what a Yarmulke is. And I'm not sure it is legal to wear your religious pendant over your shirt, while I'm pretty sure it is tolerated.

quote: Secondly, you have not made a case for how the headscarves interfere with the education of the students. Without this, I can see no reason to restrict this expression of religion.

Headscarves interfere only with education in a few courses, that is sports and chemics (where they can take fire). However headscarves being an obvious religious symbol, it interferes with the school as an environment for socialization (school isn't only about education, even if it is the main goal) devoid of any religious or political pressure.

Of course, school cannot be completely devoid of political or religious pressure in reality, but it is some unreachable goal the French school historically tries to near as much as possible.

	26-05-2003 20:21									#94
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What do you expect from Islam? Mohammed the prophet was engaged with a 8 years old girl

	26-05-2003 20:40									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin School uniforms would solve this problem completely and would eliminate rich students showing off their expensive designer clothes and interjecting class conflict into the education enviroment.

That doesn't happen. I know. I go to school. I have no way of telling, from people's clothes, whether they're rich, middle class, or poor.

	26-05-2003 20:45									#96
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker That doesn't happen. I know. I go to school. I have no way of telling, from people's clothes, whether they're rich, middle class, or poor.

That may be because you're in a socially homogenous school. In my highschool (my most socially mixed class), clothing showed definitely to which category people belonged, even though it wasn't a strictly income based difference.

	26-05-2003 20:48									#97
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I'm not, I'm in a VERY socially diverse school.

	26-05-2003 21:05									#98
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Don't your colleagues use clothing as a way to show to which gang / category they belong ? (I am not strictly talking about income-based categories)