15-06-2003 03:23									#121
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower A few observations: 1. Cruisers will be almost useless against 88's behind a coastal fortress IMO. 10 Katys sounds like an absolute HUGE number, we could sack Berlin with that many, well, maybe not, but close. 2. The front commanders and I do have a strategy of a sort, allowing the Belorussian Front to go as far as it can safely go without any reinforcements, an attack from the Northwest front that ends on the Baltic coast, while the Baltic Front holds at leningrad, killing Germans as it can. In murmansk, I admit, I don't really have a plan myself that fits in with the others. On the second Ukranian Front, the plan is to hold on the Don until the end of summer, and then go on the offensive. Perhaps the offensive will begin in summer so the sturms we've built can mow down the Germans in the open fields. By the end of winter they are to be in Dnepropetrovsk and Kherson. If not Dnepropetrovsk, then Zaporozhye. Bucharest and Ploesti are also to be under Soviet control if that is possible by amphibious landing. On the 1st Ukranian Front, Shaka is to be in Kiev by winter's end. It will be difficult, especially with the destroyed roads, but I believe that it can be done. While the commanders and I haven't laid all of this out before in writing or as much detail, we've been conversing by pm or instant messenger over these goals. The power that has been leading this Marshal through such a successful campaign (at least people have been telling me that I'm doing a good job) has been the private communicaes where ceremony and appearances do not have to be stood upon. My apologies to the General Secretary for keeping him in the dark, but this has been going on for sometime before the Politburo was formed and old habits are hard to break.

H, this is a great Operational Plan.

But why are you doing it? Thats my point what is the strategic goal. Is it something like:

"Hold along the River Don and launch Two major thrusts towards Berlin and Ploesti with the intent of capturing both by the end of winter 1944-45."

This is just an example, and to be honest this is what I would push for. But the group should decide. I think we already decided victory conditions, Im just looking for the steps to get us there.

Guys that is all Im looking for. When we get close to these objectives we can talk about the follow on goals.

Thats Strategic. How you guys get there is STAVKA business. If you get there early and satisfy the goals early so much the better!

Ill shut up now.

	15-06-2003 04:13									#122
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 H, this is a great Operational Plan.

Thanks! but it still has some flaws in it to be worked out and reinforcements to be moved into place, which I'm afraid we won't be abledo fast enough.

quote: But why are you doing it? Thats my point what is the strategic goal. Is it something like: "Hold along the River Don and launch Two major thrusts towards Berlin and Ploesti with the intent of capturing both by the end of winter 1944-45."

Actually, it's on a much lower level, shorten the front, secure the Belorussian Front's flanks which, when added together in length, probably are equal in size to all of the remaining Front with the Germans! Bialystok to Orel is a LONG way!

quote: Ill shut up now.

Nah, I'd rather hear you ramble a little more

	17-06-2003 05:46									#123
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The scheduled invasion of Romania is going to be one of the most complicated manuevers we're going to attempt in the whole war. And even though this attack only deals with the 2nd Ukranian Front, I want it planned out here because I want every general's opinion on how it should be carried out. (Those who aren't on Stavka are also encouraged to provide constructive input) So many things need to go off right for this plan to work, starting with what units we take along, anti-submarine warfare, what beach we decide to land on, and where we go from that point. The Politburo has taken a deep interest in this plan, let's not screw up in front of them


(Marshal's hairbrained plan coming shortly)

	17-06-2003 07:02									#124
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No!!!!! Stupid forums ate my plan!!!!

	17-06-2003 07:30									#125
	Marshal's Romanian Attack Op Plan A: Get a bigger avatar today!

Turn 1: Naval Deployment
NOTE: turn one happens in the last month of summer
*Our seven move freighters (curtesy of the naval convoy wonder) will move to either position 1 or 2 (marked in blue on the map) outside of the Romanian coastal city in the area. A cruiser and La-5 will be stacked on each to protect the freighters. Hopefully keeping German planes from attacking as well as German subs.
*Destroyers go hunting for german U-boats

Turn 2: Landing
*Naval infantry storm the coastal town, taking it. Red Guards provide backup if needed.
*Transports move into city and off load the other units and then head back to sevestpol.
*Tanks and artillery move on either Bucharest (red arrow) or the oil fields and ploesti (yellow arrow)
*naval infantry remain in coastal town to defend it.

Turn 3: Capturing Ploesti or Bucharest
*If the attacks on Ploesti or Bucharest haven't won yet, continue the attack.
*Once the city is captured, rush build a barracks to heal damaged units for attack on the other city.

Turn 4: Reinforcements arrive
Freighters return to Romania with additional infantry, AA guns, possible artillery and tanks.

Naval Assests
3 freighters (carry 4 each)
2 Cruisers
2 destroyers
1 damaged cruiser which may not be available in time

Transport load out
4 naval infantry (from sevestpol)
2 kv-1s (from perekop)
1 t34/76 (from sevestpol)
3 red guards (2 from sevestpol, 1 from perekop)
1 katyusha (currently doesn't exist, substitute additional Naval infantry)
1 cossack cavalry (from perekop)

Additional units needed
2 La-5 from Perekop (first and second turn only)


Units remaining behind in perekop
3 Kv-1
3 AA guns
2 La-5
1 Shturmovik
3 Cossack cavalry
1 motorized infantry
3 45mm anti tank guns
1 T34/76
1 T34/85


This is just a plan for critic, this is not an order to the 2nd Ukranian Front Commander

Attachment: romanian attack.gif
This has been downloaded 168 time(s).

	17-06-2003 11:41									#126
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Hmmm, I'd say this plan could work out okay. Ploesti would be the first city to take, in my opinion. I consider it more valuable than Bucharest, so might as well go for it first. Of course, things may change once the landings actually happen.

	17-06-2003 12:12									#127
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The trick is, what will the Germans be defending with? if we run into a single 88, we're through. A single Katyusha won't be able to take it out, and we may not even have that.

Now, my plan has a few holes, I set it for the end of summer to begin because the La-5 can protect the transports while they are vulnerable from submarines, but what of the cruiser that will be called upon defend against an attacking airplane? How successful will it be? If an airplane can take out the cruiser, we may as well move it back a month and deal with the one dimensional threat of submarines.

Capturing Bucharest causes the Romanian surrender (I'm not positive how this works, but I imagine that the Romanian troops will stop spawning, not that we've seen many of them, but they're out there somewhere) or, Ploesti, denying the Germans the oilfields there and their mega science city since it has the equivalent of Copernicus' oberservatory there. Both goals worthy of the undertaking on their own, placing them together just lets us deal an even more crippling blow to the Germans. If we succeed.

	17-06-2003 13:10									#128
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I had forgotten about the Romanians surrendering.(I believe the current Romanian troops are disbanded along with no new ones being created, but I'm not sure. In that case, Bucharest would be the best choice to take first, as it might make capturing Ploesti easier.) I'm not sure if a cruiser can take on an air attack, but unless someone says otherwise, I believe we should chance it.

	17-06-2003 13:17									#129
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Yes, the plan could work.

I could attack with my Shturmoviks the Portal City, to avoid heavy casualties during the landings.
However, how are we going to do supply these later on? how will they survive the whole Winter, surronded by enemies, this operation will need a lot more troops so that we can even hold the cities.

Anyway, the Other offensive, could save these troops if they come there in time.

Last edited by FiGu on 17-06-2003 at 13:28

	17-06-2003 13:36									#130
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If you could provide air support, that would help out alot.
I had thought about holding out after we take the cities, but I am confident that with reinforcements, we can succesfully defend them both.

Congratulations on you recent medal, comrade. It was all because of your excellent leadership that your men excelled.

	17-06-2003 13:36									#131
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If we wait for the convoy wonder, the freighters can cross the sea in one turn (mine do it in my game, and I have the convoy wonder).
With the help of a sturmovik, you probably will take the city immediately, as it is in most of the games very light guarded (I never encountered an 88). Afterwards, we can get troops there every two turns by freighter, and so create a front ready to take Romania and Hungary.

Oh, I forgot to mention I really like the plan (As I started talking about it some time ago, that wasn't a real surprise ) I think the timetable is very good, I would just try to take Galati the first turn, if needed we should rush the convoy wonder. This way our units will be a lot safer then at sea.

	17-06-2003 14:13									#132
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The convoy wonder was scheduled for completition in october, but the economics minister has informed me that he rushed it so it will be done in september.

Does the transport reach from sevestpol's port to Galatai's port in one move? that would be beneficial to us. We strike while it's still summer, I change the files to winter, and the Germans are stuck in the mud. It's almost too good to be true.

	17-06-2003 18:08									#133
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Yes, a transport then has movement 8, which is just enough to get to Galati and enter the port in one turn. This will make the invasion easier and especially safer!

	17-06-2003 19:19									#134
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The Convoy Wonder gives you a bonus of two moves? Someone told me it was only a one square bonus...

	17-06-2003 20:26									#135
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It is a two moves bonus.

	17-06-2003 21:40									#136
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Not only Galati can be reached in 1 turn, but it is also usually lightly defended... by sending a couple of transports with an accompanying sturmovik or two to knock out the defenses, the city can be easily taken....

with a couple of tanks to patrol the surroundins and knock out nazi troops (mainly romanian inf... they don't have a large industrial output in the area for lots of fancy stuff) but careful to have enouh move to go back should do the trick... a few AA's should also be necesary, but i didn't recieve air attacks....

after that, the city is safe for katyusha reinforcements from sebastopol (perhaps building them in the urals also?).... during winter, (or next summer for more move and air support), when enough katy's (and assorted other units) are present, the offensive should be launched...

	17-06-2003 21:44									#137
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oh, and a couple of siberian t 34's and katys should be airlifted to sebastopol for the invasion... i wouldn't take much of perekop's troops... the city ets heavily pounded if the spawning germans just to the north aren't picked up before the end of turn...


and yes, the convoy wonder adds two move, it is there instad of magallean's... the one that adds one move and produces veteran ships is the lihthouse (admiralty in leninrad in this ame)

	18-06-2003 05:23									#138
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Artillery Comrades will solve your problems with 88's etc not the Kayusha's AT12 but the normal 2 mv variety AT14!

Normal artillery is being under estimated, I find it the winning item in taking germans cities.

Make sure you have 2-3 artillery pieces for this offensive with a kv1 to protect them. ie unload all units it a defensive square ie forest, mountain, river then next turn attack or take a coastel city mv in and attack same turn.

	19-06-2003 02:54									#139
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One problem though:
If we do take bucharest now it won't cause the romanians to surrender as it simply isn't part of the events file yet.
We need to wait further for that to happen (perhaps we ought to not take the city at all so as not to make it impossible for them to surrender in the future).

	19-06-2003 03:37									#140
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when does the event show up? during the coming winter? Or do we need to wait for next summer?

	19-06-2003 04:17									#141
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take the coastal city and ploiesti.... if ploiesti has 88 guns, then it will be quite hard to take... i think that it is safer this way, concentrating on one city at a time...

bucharest can be left for later, in fact, during winter red guards should be sent tripping through the carpathians in order to disrupt axis troop movements towards the front... this will greatly ease the burden on the southern fronts...

	19-06-2003 04:40									#142
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HsFB, will you be joining the civgroup?

	19-06-2003 05:06									#143
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i could, rigt?

wait a second...


there...

	19-06-2003 16:27									#144
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Are you sure Romanian surrender is an actual event? I thought it was just that all the Romanian Infantry units are homed to Bucharest so all get destroyed. Does anyone know for sure?

	19-06-2003 16:39									#145
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It's an actual event. It disbands all Romanian infantery.

	20-06-2003 05:55									#146
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I definitely think we should be watching out for Citadel.

I think we should discuss that: how are we going to deal with the units created behind our front line in june/July '43? The southern frtons will move ahead and the germans will appear right behind our lines; not good...

	20-06-2003 05:58									#147
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Panthers and Tigers and Ferdinands, oh my!

	20-06-2003 06:36									#148
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Yeah the name Ferdinand really makes me quake in my boots

	20-06-2003 06:41									#149
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One idea: Keep a few sturmovicks in the area, hopefully we can kill them in droves.

	21-06-2003 03:51									#150
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quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC I definitely think we should be watching out for Citadel. the germans will appear right behind our lines; not good...

I though that if you take stageing areas away from the germans ie fortress/cities that they cannot do it, ie on my front nothing is appearing and i'm sure there must be some events that create/move units there even now??

Very internesting point!