29-09-2003 01:12									#91
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Sorry - I didn't realize that you're not looking at the text with a non-black background. I'll try to keep down the number of different colours.
Just hit CTRL-A if you want to read the yellow text.

F3 formula to within 1% accuracy for most units now.

edit (in white letters now): Army comparison tool added to Army section.

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 29-09-2003 at 01:43

	30-09-2003 19:22									#92
	Luxuries, resources and their distribution Increase Your PM Length

After looking at the map that we have gotten from GCN, we can say the following about the Luxuries and resources.

Luxuries:
Ivory - all 8 accounted for, distributed in CGN and GWT territories.
Wines - all 8 accounted for, only available in CGN territory.
Spices (Forrest and Plain) - only 6 accounted for, available to both CGN and GWT
Gems (Mountain and Jungle) - only 6 accounted for. Only in GWT Territory at this time.
Silks (Forrest and Jungle) - only 7 accounted for, all available on our contentent. No Intel as to if GWT has any.
Furs (Tundra and Forrest) - only 4 accounted for, 3 in CFC area and 1 in GCA. No Intel as to if GWT has any.
Dyes (Jungle and Forrest) - only 6 accounted for, all in our general area. We know that GWT does NOT have any.
Incense (Hill and Desert) - only 6 accounted for, 2 are in CFC area and the other 4 are in our general area. We know that GWT does NOT have any.

Resources:
Iron (Hill and Mountain) - 13 accounted for (total of 16??). 8 on our contenent, 1 on the small Island, 1 on the larger Island, 2 in CGN area, 1 in GWT area.
Horses (Grassland, Plain and Hill) - 11 accounted for (total of 16??) 4 on our contentent, 3 in CGN, 3 on the other contenent that are unclaimed and atleast 1 that GWT has in the FOW.

From this, what can we surmize and maybe try to find out several things. We need to ask CFC if they can tell us if GWT has furs and we will soon find out about the silks relatively soon. We should also be getting a WM from GWT, so we will have a bit more info from them.

But IF they don't have any silks or Furs, then there are several islands or one big one that has all of the other luxes still. These could include:
2 Spices, 2 Gems, 1 Silk, 4 Furs, 2 Dyes and 2 Incense. There could also be more Iron and Horses.

So that we can have the Items to trade with them (i.e. monopolize the trade) and have some of what they offer, we need to try to find and colonize those islands before they do. And, like the other Luxes, they will not be available until we get to Navigation, but we might have them ready to ship home.

E_T

Last edited by E_T on 01-10-2003 at 01:46

	30-09-2003 20:52									#93
	Remove this text

Please check the GWT embassy screen for more info of availability of Luxuries to GWT.

Please check the availability of Dyes and Incense to CGN (via the
Diplo screen).

(can't do this myself, since my home computer with the game on it is currently broken)

	30-09-2003 21:18									#94
	Increase Your PM Length

Already done.... GWT needs Incense and Dyes. They don't need Horses.

E_T

	02-10-2003 02:55									#95
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E_T and I have been trying to track down a problem he was having correctly equating the cost of techs based upon numbers in this thread and when we compared numbers and looked through what we were each doing, it was apparent that E_T was using the wrong editor values for the techs (obtained from this thread).

It should be noted that some of the editor values (price of techs) changed with some of the patches. To my knowledge the v1.27 values are:

Pottery 2
Ceremonial Burial 2
Bronze Working 2
Warior Code 3
Masonry 4
Wheel 4
Mysticism 4
Alphabet 5
Horseback Riding 5
Iron Working 6
Philosophy 6
Writing 8
Mathematics 8
Code of Laws 10
Literature 10
Polytheism 12
Map Making 12
Currency 16
Construction 20
Monarchy 24
Republic 28
Monotheism 36
Feudalism 32
Engineering 36
Theology 40
Chivalry 32
Invention 44
Printing Press 36
Music Theory 40
Education 44
Gunpowder 48
Banking 52
Astronomy 56
Chemistry 60
Democracy 68
Economics 56
Physics 64
Metallurgy 64
Free Artistry 52
Theory of Gravity 68
Magnetism 68
Military Tradition 64
Nationalism 120
Steam Power 120
Medicine 100
Communism 120
Industrialization 120
Electricity 140
Scientific Method 100
Sanitation 90
Espionage 90
The Corporation 100
Refining 160
Steel 140
Atomic Theory 200
Combustion 160
Replaceable Parts 140
Flight 180
Amphibious War 120
Mass Production 140
Electronics 180
Motorized Transport 140
Advanced Flight 180
Radio 200
Rocketry 240
Fission 280
Computers 260
Recycling 240
Space Flight 300
Nuclear Power 280
Superconductor 300
Miniaturization 320
Ecology 260
Synthetic Fibers 280
Satellites 260
The Laser 280
Genetics 320
Stealth 300
Smart Weapons 280
Robotics 320
Integrated Defense 360

Last edited by Arnelos on 02-10-2003 at 03:09

	02-10-2003 03:08									#96
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Middle Ages list updated.

	05-10-2003 19:17									#97
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BFM, I have started compiling the city data for CGN. Easier to start early & update often. Can you find somewhere to store this ? then i will update as often as i can.

CITY STATUS
Summary : No significant change from Turn 122 to Turn 123. 2 Cities population increased - Waterloo, Hannibal.

Note : City status analysis starts on Turn 122 - after we exchanged World Map with CGN.
1. Arhus - sitting on Grassland, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 9

2. Micco - Plain, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 8

3. Newark - Grassland, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 6

4. Bretten - Hills, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 3

5. Hannibal - Grassland, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 6
Turn 123 - Population increase to 7

6. Hull - Tundra, no Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 1

7. Trois-Rivieres - Grassland, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 7

8. Rockford - Grassland, Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2

9. Marion - Tundra, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2

10. Siegen - Hills, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2

11. Northamption - Grassland, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 5

12. Saxton - Grassland, no Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 3

13. Arlington - Plains, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 4

14. Floral Park - Grassland, Unable to determine whether city has culture
Turn 122 - Pop 8

15. Seven oaks - Plain, Unable to determine whether city has culture
Turn 122 - Pop 5

16. Columbus - Plain, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 3

17. Tampere - Grassland, no Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 1

18. El Amarna - Grassland, no Culture (Note : City from Firaxis)
Turn 122 - Pop 2

19. Perris - Hills, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2

20. Waterloo - Hills, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2
Turn 123 - Population increased to 3

21. Agincourt - Hills, No culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2

RESOURCE STATUS
Wheat - 5, Cattle - 6, Game - 3, Iron - 2, Horse - 2, Spice - 4, Game - 3, Gold - 1, Fish - 1, Wines - 5, Ivory - 1,

	05-10-2003 22:08									#98
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

rush (or anyone else), could you post a screenshot of the CGN cities?

	06-10-2003 06:04									#99
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

civman2000, i can try ...... but you have to wait another 12 hrs, because i am working at the office now.

Anybody else willing to do it ?

	07-10-2003 11:32									#100
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Rush - thanks for the CGN city info. I'll fit it in later.

edit: fitted in now.

Some additional info obtained by Trip and reported by nye:

CFC reports to have 4 MI, 6 Pike, 3 Spear and is weak to GCA.
This will get us a minimum estimate for GCA's army.

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 10-10-2003 at 01:38

	10-10-2003 00:22									#101
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Updated Army Analysis.

Old info:

quote: GCA's Army Update: Turn 97, Jul 29th, 2003 We got: Warrior: 6 Reg, 1 Eli NumMerc: 3 Wounded, 3 Reg, 1 Vet Sword: 1 Reg, 11 Vet Galley: 2 Reg Horse: 2 Vet ...for a total of 63.75, if I'm assuming correctly that a wounded unit counts as 2/3 compared to a regular one. They're slightly below 80% of this, since we just went from Average to Strong. That's 51 points, or typically: 6 Warrior 8 Spear 10 Sword 2 Horse ...all equally divided between Reg and Vet. This is 50.4 points.

	10-10-2003 01:29									#102
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Updated Science.
Updated Contacts.
Updated CGN info (thanks to Rush).
Old info:

quote: All the World Map tells us about CFC Update: Turn 76, Jun 19th, 2003. Now that we have their World Map, we can take a better look at CFC: Land They have 6600 square miles of Land (including Water tiles). Apolyton has 6200 square miles (8th). CDG has 8100 square miles. Population They have at least 210,000 + 60,000 + 30,000 + 10,000 = 310,000 people and no more than: 280,000 + 100,000 + 60,000 + 30,000 = 470,000 people. Apolyton is #3 with 451,000 (last turn). CFC is probably below that. CDG is at least at 3x 10,000 + 2x 30,000 + 1x 60,000 = 150,000, and at most at 3x 30,000 + 2x 30,000 + 1x 100,000 = 250,000. Happiness and Resources They do have one supply of Furs for luxuries. They have one source of horses to the W-NW of their capital (hooked up). They have one source of horses to the SE of Jiang which they did not hook up yet. Their iron city got destroyed by GCA. Their annual income is the same as ours: 3 per capita (3rd). Production and Commerce They have decent land, but spaced out their cities quite a bit. quote: Originally posted by Trip Anyways, I did a simulation for CFC, to see what they're capable of. Using "logical" WF usage and making sure that Shen Ling was yellow (not growing), these were my results: GNP 27 MFG 18 Prod 46 Shen Ling (their capital) easily reached 10 SPT. Right now, we are: GNP 28 MFG 26 Prod 62 So they have a similar GNP to us, though their MFG and Prod is no where near us. Thanks, Trip! Disease They do not have Flood Plain or Jungle tiles in their area, so no disease (0%). Apolyton is at 20% (7th). CDG is at 39.5% (8th). Life Expectancy Apolyton has 32 years (2nd). If Shen Ling had a Granary, CFC would have 20+ (6/12/3) * 80 = 33 years and they would be #1. If they have no Granaries, they would have 20 years. We should be able to check this from the F11 screens.

	10-10-2003 01:39									#103
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Added some GWT info.
Wonders section added.

	10-10-2003 03:57									#104
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

E_T's Beaker Calculator made available in the Science section.

	13-10-2003 05:13									#105
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Trip found out a little thing today on the save. If you right click on any tile that we can see but the map that you have shows that it does not have any improvements, but the food/sheilds/trade for the tile show what is actually there (road/mine/irrigation/etc).

Whether this is a expoit or bug or Undocumented feature, this is a powerful tool to use.

For one thing, you can track when an Improvement is done and then when the next one is done, close by. With it, you can extrapolate number of worker and where they currently are. Plus, we can update our maps without having to trade maps.

E_T

Last edited by E_T on 13-10-2003 at 05:27

	13-10-2003 05:21									#106
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Its the first I've heard of it, but I would definately consider it a bug and using it a cheat. Had Firaxis intended for us to be able to see improvements through the fog of war they wouldn't of bothered making them not show through the fog of war.

Personally, I think we should send an email to Firaxis and report it on the off chance they didn't already realize.

	13-10-2003 05:31									#107
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Good observation!

But I agree with Wervdon that its a bug and shouldn't be used.

Can't believe this wouldn't have been found by now, but perhaps its been held close to the vest.

	13-10-2003 06:28									#108
	Put an end to popups!

If it has been known and held close to the vest, then it would fall under the Undocumented features heading.

E_T

	13-10-2003 06:34									#109
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Also, this IS considered to be Confidential Information and is not to be repeated outside this forum!!

E_T

	13-10-2003 06:53									#110
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Good observation! But I agree with Wervdon that its a bug and shouldn't be used. Can't believe this wouldn't have been found by now, but perhaps its been held close to the vest.

It may be unintentional and even a bug, we don't know this. Why does the map show when a Forrest or Jungle tile is cleared but not when a road or a mine is placed behind the FoW? That is weird to me. I don't think it is "cheating" to look at and find out what each tile is capable of producing for your Civ.

	13-10-2003 19:47									#111
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If it shows something the fog of war is set to deliberately hide from us, then its a bug. Again, I think we should clarify with someone from Firaxis (but no one outside of Firaxis for sure).

	13-10-2003 21:21									#112
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Agreed on notifying Firaxis about this. Do we have any "official" comm channel with them ?

	14-10-2003 00:24									#113
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The top 5 cities list tells us that Algalord's growth is stagnating.
So according to this, we can tell just how much food the city is producing (8, 2 per citizen), and so we can guess how much shield and commerce it is producing, prior to waste and corruption.
I've come to the conclusion that Algalord is working the irrigated grassland at 22, the irrigated plains at 2 and 77, and the forest at 1. That gives them 4 shields and 6 commerce before corruption and waste (which we can calculate accurately according to the known formulas, but I estimate that they're losing 1 shield and 2 commerce).
I'm not sure if any useful info can be brought out of this, but it seems worth mentioning.

Last edited by Shiber on 14-10-2003 at 00:29

	14-10-2003 00:29									#114
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Shiber, see the screenshots of algalord in the war thread.

E_T

	14-10-2003 03:16									#115
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Oh, I just realized that.
Still, it was fun, so no matter.

	15-10-2003 02:35									#116
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Agreed on notifying Firaxis about this. Do we have any "official" comm channel with them ?

What about the email address they was using to receive the turn saves?

	07-11-2003 06:17									#117
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BFM - CGN went into Anarchy 130BC when we sent them Republic, and they emerged into Republic in 10BC.

	10-11-2003 13:51									#118
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Okay.

Updates to this thead will follow when I have my personal computer at home again.

	10-11-2003 14:54									#119
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

E_T has pointed out in chat that he believes GWT will beat CGN "into a bloody pulp" because they have spent so long without iron connected. He believes they will march south with a sizable SoD followed by a force of Ansars for backup. By contrast, CGN did not disconnect their iron and used what might have been a similar plan to build many warriors and spearmen for a later mass upgrade (while at high tax).

E_T suggested that it might help if Area X would look closely at any factors we can see to determine just how strong GWT is compared to CGN and what CGN might be able to do about the problem.

He asked me to post about this since he went to bed (it being about 5 a.m. his time as our turn chat ends).

Thanks.

	10-11-2003 21:53									#120
	Inflate your Upload Space

Also, I think that GWT might have already finished Mono, which is why CGN might have finished it so fast.

E_T