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BigFurryMonster
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EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:28
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Area X
alias The Ministry of Intelligence
This is not the Ministry of Silly Walks. For more info on Silly Walks, click here.
This is not the Ministry of Information, either. For the Ministry of Information, click here.
This is the thread which keeps you up-to-date with Intelligence info on the game in general, and certain civs in particular.
First, let me state that I, your Minister of Intelligence, cannot do this all by myself. A lot of analyses involve going through turn reports and through the saved game. Sometimes, lots of numbers need to be 'crunched'. But it's rewarding work! With the info we obtain, we can improve our gameplay. So...
Area X WANTS YOU! If you want to help Poly in this field, please post so below!
I'm going to put up a list of things that deserve research. If you see something you'd like to do, let me know, so I can make sure that no double work is done. If you want something researched, speak up!
I'm conducting all experiments under the latest game patches. If a game does not use the latest patch, the test results may not carry over.
How is this thread organized?
- Well, first of all, I do not intend to make this a topped thread. When I update information, I'll post a message in this thread. Just subscribe to this thread to learn what is being discovered from time to time.
- The posts on the first page will be reserved for the most recent information on certain things. When we have new findings, I'll update those posts to reflect the current situation, and add a message as described above.
- The above means that the information is not always up-to-date to the last turn played. Taking care of so much info is a lot of work. However, if you would like to see an update, just post a request, and I'll work on it as soon as possible. I'll make it clear when a post has been last updated.
What can you find in this thread? - a short list:
- Army Assessment info
- Contact Analysis
- Score / Culture Analysis
- Science Analyses / Plans
- Demographics Analysis
- Civ Specific Analysis
- Treasury Analysis
- Wonders of the World
- .... add your request!
-- BFM
Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 10-10-2003 at 01:41
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BigFurryMonster
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EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:28
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Army Assessment
Army Strength Formula
Update: Turn 121, Sep 28th, 2003
Edited on May 24th 2004
The formula below seems to be precise for units with a Defense Value that is a multiple of 4. It is accurate to within 1% for units with a defense value greater than 2. For spearmen, it's within 5% accurate. For warriors, I cannot say.
The {} means: round down to 1 decimal.
Unit Strength =
(MAX (3;Hitpoints) / 3)
* (0.6 * Attack Value + 0.4 * {Defense Value * 1.25 if Fortified} + Bombard Strength Value / 15)
* (1.01 if UU and CivSpecificAbilitiesOn)
Army Strength =
Sum (Unit Strengths) * (Factor depending on ArmySupportCost)
No influence:
- "Naval" ability
- Movement value
- Rate of Fire value
- Bombard Range value
- Terrain
- Forts
Still needs testing:
- Factor depending on ArmySupportCost
GCA's Army
Update: Turn 125, Oct 9th, 2003
The following file contains our Army stats in Turn 125:
Army Tool v2.0
It also gives an estimate for the maximum army GCA has:
17 Spearman
20 Swordsman
12 Horseman
5 Warrior
This assumes that all units are Veteran; the Spearman and Warriors are fortified.
Links:
Area X F3 Army Tool v2.0
A tool to compare army strengths (fill in our army, assume composition of enemy army and you'll get a rough idea of what he has)
Area X F3 Army Tool v1.0
Older version
Army Strength Formula Test Area
Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 24-05-2004 at 14:26
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BigFurryMonster
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EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:28
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Contact Analysis
Update: Turn 125, Oct 9th, 2003.
Poly: CFC, CGN, GCA, GWT.
CFC: GCA, Poly, GWT.
GCA: CFC, GWT, Poly.
CGN: Poly, GWT.
GWT: CGN, CFC, GCA, Poly.
Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 10-10-2003 at 01:16
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BigFurryMonster
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EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:28
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Score / Power / Culture Analysis
Power Score
Update: Turn 96, July 28th, 2003.
quote:
Originally posted by Trip
Base power is assumed to be power (as reflected on the powergraph) with 1 city and 1 Warrior. For much of my testing I had two civs and compared their power. The change in power is taken from equilibrium where they both have equal power. The interesting thing about the powergraph is that it's always relative to other civs and not a fixed line. This makes pinpointing a change in power difficult (for example, our great rise is mainly due to the other civs losing power, instead of us gaining it).
Population affects score, but not power. Having 2 cities while your opponent only has one provides a 31% boost in base power. 3 cities gives a 41% base increase.
All units count the same in comparing power. Modern Armor = Warrior. Having 1 Warrior when your opponent doesn't provides a 15.9% increase to base power. Having 15 when your opponent has 10 provides a 13.6% increase.
Gold affects power, but not as much as cities or units. Having 100 gold while your opponent has 10 only provides a 7% increase in base power.
Resources are factored into power, but not much. Having horses when your opponent does not provides a 2.9% increase to base power. Having horses and iron when your opponent does not provides a 5.2% increase.
Techs only provide a tiny increase. Having Iron Working and Bronze Working while your opponent only has Bronze Working provides only a 1.3% increase.
From what I can tell, culture is not factored in at all despite what the chart itself says. Having a 1,000,000 culture city isn't even noticed by the graph (20,000 in one city or 100,000 total is a culture victory). 
And now… for the charts.
The first chart is our power without factoring in units, techs and gold (so it's basically cities, culture and resources). The second one is the actual chart from the game.
So what this tells us is that basically we have more units than the rest of the continent. Profound, I know. 
However, what is interesting is that city population and unit stats are not taken into consideration for the power calculations. At the moment, we are no doubt inferior to the rest of the continent in both regards: we have lots of small cities and tons of un-upgraded Warriors. These two factors inflate our power compared to what an "accurate" showing of our power at this moment would be. If city population and unit stats were factored instead of the straight number of cities and number of units, our power rating would be much lower.
So in all honesty, we're not as "strong" as we are being shown on the powergraph. Sure, we can quickly upgrade lots of Warriors, have improved our terrain in an excellent manner, have a strong city core, and possess huge GNP (relative to this continent) among other things, but you won't find those on a graph.
So in actuality the powergraph is showing a false strength in us, but an accurate portrayal of our true potential.  How nice of the game to blow our cover. 
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Thanks, Trip!
Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 28-07-2003 at 19:15
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BigFurryMonster
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EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:28
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Science Analysis
Tech Overview
Update: Turn 119, Sep 23rd, 2003.
From left to right: science cost, tech, status, other civs yes/no/next.
(Knowledge about CDG and FIR still present in Ancient Age)
Ancient Age
2 Pottery Discovered on Turn 14. CDG CFC CGN GCA GWT
2 Ceremonial Burial Acquired from CFC on Turn 54. CFC CDG CGN GCA GWT
3 Bronze Working Discovered on Turn 26. CDG CFC CGN GCA GWT
3 Warrior Code Discovered on Turn 37. CDG CFC CGN GCA GWT
4 Masonry Starting tech. CDG CFC CGN GCA GWT
4 The Wheel Discovered on Turn 47. CDG CFC CGN GCA GWT
4 Mysticism Acquired from GCA on Turn 78. CDG CFC CGN GCA GWT
5 Alphabet Starting tech. CDG CFC CGN GCA GWT
5 Horseback Riding Acquired from CFC on turn 77. CFC CGN GCA GWT
6 Iron Working Acquired from CDG on turn 48. CDG CFC CGN GCA GWT
6 Philosophy Acquired from CDG on Turn 76. CDG CFC CGN GWT
8 Mathematics Acquired from CDG on Turn 76. CDG CFC CGN GWT
8 Writing Acquired from GCA on Turn 48. CDG CFC CGN GCA GWT
10 Code of Laws Discovered on Turn 79. CDG CFC CGN GWT
10* Literature Acquired from CDG on turn 89. CDG CFC CGN FIR GCA GRE GWT
12 MapMaking Discovered on Turn 67. CDG CFC CGN GWT GCA
12 Polytheism Acquired from GCA on Turn 98. CDG CFC CGN GCA GWT
16 Currency Discovered in a Hut on Turn 98. CDG CFC CGN GWT
20 Construction Acquired from CFC on Turn 101. CFC CGN GWT CDG GCA
24* Monarchy CDG CGN GCA GWT
28* The Republic Discovered on Turn 102. GWT CFC CDG CGN GCA
Medieval Age
32# Feudalism Acquired from CDG on Turn 103. CDG CFC CGN GWT GCA
32#* Chivalry
36# Monotheism CDG CGN GCA GWT
36# Printing Press
36 Engineering CGN GWT Acquired from GWT on Turn 118.
40#* Music Theory
40# Theology
44# Invention <== researching now
44# Education
48# Gunpowder
52# Banking
52#* Free Artistry
56# Economics
56# Astronomy
56# Navigation
60# Chemistry
64# Metallurgy
64# Physics
64#* Military Tradition
68# Democracy
68# Theory of Gravity
68# Magnetism
# changed from earlier versions
* not needed for next Era
Research plans:
Negotiations:
Update: Turn 118, Sep 20th, 2003.
- Negotiations with CFC: Republic and Engineering for Monotheism + 180 + 60 gold (only Mono still to be traded).
- Negotiations with GCA: --
- Negotiations with GWT: Invention for either Monotheism or Chivalry.
- Negotiations with CGN: --
Tech Formula
Update: Turn 106, Aug 20th, 2003.
The formula for calculating a tech's beaker cost is:
[WorldSizeFactor * [10 * EditorCost * (1 - M/[1.75N])] / (10 * LevelFactor)]
- WorldSizeFactor = (from tiny to huge): 160, 200, 240, 320, 400
- LevelFactor = (from chieftain to deity): 10, 10, 10, 9, 8, 6
- EditorCost: the tech-specific number that can be found in the Editor.
- M is the number of civs that you have contact with that have the tech.
- N is the total number of civs left in the game.
- Square brackets mean a rounddown (truncation) of the result.
To calculate the number of turns estimated to discover the tech, divide the outcome of the above by your current science output. There is a minimum of 4 turns and a maximum of 40 turns for researching a tech alltogether.
The previously used formula is:
EditorCost * WorldSizeFactor / LevelFactor * (1 - M / (2 * (N - 1)))
Links:
Science Discussion.
Turn 67 thread.
Thread with factors.
Thread on CFC with "new" formula.
Thread with previous formula.
Thread on GWT with tech costs.
Thread on CFC with TechCalc - a Science Calculator.
E_T's Science Beaker Calculator.
Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 10-10-2003 at 03:56
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BigFurryMonster
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EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:28
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Demographics Analysis
Formulas
Update: Turn 69, Jun 16th, 2003
These are the formulas that make up the Demographics Stats in the F11 screen:
- Approval Rating (%)
Rounddown (50% + ((Number of happy citizens) - (Number of unhappy citizens)) / (Total number of citizens) / 2 * 100%)
- Population (# of people)
Sum(i=1..N) {Pop in City(i)}
Pop in City = {Sum (j=1..(City Size)) {j} + (Food in Storage) / (Storage Size)} * 10000
- GNP (millions)
1 million = 1 Commerce (before corruption)
[EDIT by E_T] Slider setting & Trade Improvement dependant. If you have lots of Markets and banks but no Libs, then it will show more with slider set at tax than at beakers. This Value is equil to the From Citys Income part of the F1 screen.
- Mfg. Goods (megatons)
1 megaton = 1 shield (after corruption)
- Land area (square miles)
100 square miles = 1 territory tile (including sea tiles)
- Literacy (%)
(Citizens who live in a city with a Library + Citizens who live in a city with a University + Citizens who live in a city with a Research Lab) / 3 / (Total Number of Citizens) * 100% + (3% if Literature discovered)
The following wonders count as Library, University and Research Lab: Great Library, Newton's, SETI Program, Theory of Evolution, Cure for Cancer, Internet.
The following small wonders count as half a wonder: Apollo Program, Intelligence Agency.
- Disease (%)
(Number of Floodplains + Jungle in territory) / (Total Number of territory tiles) * 100%
- Pollution (tons)
1 ton = 1 polluted territory tile
- Life Expectancy (# of years)
20 + {(Citizens who live in a city with a Granary + Citizens who live in a city with a Aqueduct + Citizens who live in a city with a Hospital) / 3 / (Total Number of Citizens) * 80}
- Family Size (# of children)
Max {1, (Net Total Food) / (Number of Cities) / 2}
- Military Service (# of years)
(Number of Military Units with Attack > 0) / (Total Number of Citizens) * 10
- Annual income (# per capita)
1 + (Number of available Strategic and Luxury Resource Types) + (1 if you have a trade route)
- Productivity (#)
(Total Shields) - (Total Waste) + (Total Commerce) - (Total Corruption) + (Net Total Food)
Turn 106 Analysis
Update: Turn 106, Aug 19th, 2003
This is the first turn in Republic. A good time to review our position.
- MFG Goods (shields after waste)
>51, >51, 50, 31, 28, 17, <=14.
- GNP (commerce before corruption)
123, 103, 95, 41, 40 or 39, <=38, <=38.
- Productivity (net commerce + net shields + net food)
>167, 167, 158, 80, 66, 44, 18.
This last civ is either pretty pathetic or they just went into Anarchy (we had a Prod of 19 last turn in Anarchy / we also were 7th at 0 MFG last turn so they were not in Anarchy then).
- Approval Rating (Happy Faces / %)
appr. 74%, appr. 71%, 68%, appr. 67%, appr. 63%, <= 60%, <= 60%.
(these %s are approximations)
Links:
First Poly Demographics Analysis
Demographics Formulas
Thread at CFC about Demographics (not always 100% correct)
Last edited by E_T on 04-05-2004 at 21:16
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BigFurryMonster
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EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:28
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Civ Specific Analysis
Something we found out about GWT
Update: Turn 125, Oct 9th, 2003.
- They do not have Iron hooked up. They might be building warriors to upgrade later.
Everything you want to know about GCA - by Rush
Update: Turn 125, Oct 9th, 2003.
Obviously it's not, but I think it's absolutely necessary to gather every piece of information available about GCA.
City Status
Catcher in the Rye (formerly known as Elucidium - CDG)
Turn 93 - captured city from CDG. Walls included.
Turn 99 - Population increase to 2
Turn 103 - Population reduced to 1. Rushed a temple.
Turn 105 - Population increased to 2
Turn 108 - Culture expanded (from temple rush on turn 103)
Turn 110 - Population increased to 3
Turn 117 - Population increased to 4
Turn 122 - City disbanded (Note : city was building Settler when we investigated)
Incredible Dancing Girl (formerly known as Zarigueya - CDG)
Turn 90 - captured city from CDG. Walls included.
Turn 108 - Culture expanded. same time as Catcher in the Rye. Likely to have built a temple too on Turn 103.
Turn 113 - Population increased to 2
Turn 114 - Population reduced to 1. Likely to have built a worker.
Turn 124 - City disbanded
Random Outpost (formerly known as OurGoatsaretrainedtokill - CDG)
Turn 86 - Captured from CDG
Turn 102 - Population increased to 2
Turn 120 - Population increased to 3
Turn 123 - Population reduced to 2
Turn 124 - City disbanded
Algalord
Turn 81 - Culture expanded (to 100) so their temple was built very long ago
Turn 94 - Population increased to 4
Turn 105 - Population increased to 5
Turn 115 - Population reduced to 3. Built Settler. Settler found Lucky Harbor.
Turn 120 - Population increased to 4
Server Fire
Turn 91 - Built from the settler from Dun na Anarchy
Turn 101 - Population increased to 2
Turn 111 - Population increased to 3
Turn 121 - Population reduced to 1. Built Settler. Settler has not found City yet.
Catchopolis
Turn 84 - Population increased to 5
Turn 101 - Population increased to 6
Turn 124 - Population increased to 7
Turn 125 - Built Great Library
Dun na Arnachy
Turn 81 - Population increased to 3
Turn 85 - Population increased to 4
Turn 88 - Population reduced to 2. Built settler. Settler found Server Fire.
Turn 90 - Population increased to 3
Turn 95 - Population increased to 4
Turn 99 - Culture expanded (10). Could have built a temple on Turn 94.
Turn 100 - Population increased to 5
Turn 101 - Population reduced to 3. Built settler. Settler found Port Blacksand.
Turn 105 - Population increased to 4
Turn 107 - Population reduced to 2. Built settler. Settler found Sodapopolis.
Turn 110 - Population increased to 3
Turn 115 - Population increased to 4
Turn 119 - Population dropped to 3. Built Settler. Settler found Santopia
Turn 123 - Poly captured Dun na Arnachy. City razed.
Turn 124 - GCA rebuilt Dun na Arnachy.
Balance of Power
Turn 92 - Population increased to 5
Turn 101 - Culture expanded (100). Must have built temple very long ago.
Turn 123 - Population increased to 6
Port Blacksand
Turn 105 - built from settler from Dun Na Anarchy
Turn 115 - Population increased to 2
Turn 125 - Population increased to 3
Sodapopolis
Turn 111 - built from settler from Dun Na Anarchy
Lucky Harbor
Turn 120 - built from settler from Algalord
Santopia
Turn 125 - built from settler from Dun na Anarchy
History / other
1. Basic Information
Gamecatcher.net
http://www.gamecatcher.net
savegames sent to: GCteam@gamecatcher.net
Civilization: India
Civilization Name: Gamecatcher Alliance (GCA)
Colour: Black
Civ Traits: Commercial, Religious
Starting Techs: Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial
Unique Unit: War Elephant (4/3/2, 70 shields, no resource needed, replaces Knight)
Who's in their Team ?
Http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...169#post1840169
Aeson : Lucky is a very good player. One of the best from the GOTM community. He's a nice guy, and seems to play mainly for the fun of it.
2. Non-Aggresssion Agreements etc
Mar 29 - Signed Non-Aggression Pact with GCA, 30 Turns.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...546#post1865546
May 23 - Renewed Non-Aggression Pact with GCA, 30 Turns
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...324#post2028324
Jul 17 - Non-Aggression Agreement signed. No travel within 1 tile of either border. Allow Princess to travel thru their waters. Ends on Turn 130.
3. Our Dealings with GCA
GCA Border spotted. And the trouble that CDG took to avoid us from contacting GCA.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...495#post1857495
Mar 19 - Turn 26 2750BC - Made Ingame contact with GCA. WhiteBandit and History Buff appointed as ambassadors for Apolyton & GCA respectively.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=81768
Http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...090#post1855090
Apr 8 - Warrior BigFree held "hostage" between GCA and CDG
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...672#post1893672
Jun 13 - Apolyton acted as mediator to CFC/GCA
Http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...617#post2086617
Http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Ma...CFC-GCA-ACS.txt
Http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...068#post2098068 (scroll down for Part II and III)
Jun 13 - Negotation broke down. GCA declared war on CFC
Http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...596#post2094596
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...840#post2097840
3 way Alliance against GCA ?
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...356#post2085356
Jun 28 - Turn 76 1125BC - Exchanged World Map with GCA
Jul 2 - Turn 77 1100BC - CDG declared war on GCA
Http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...672#post2144672
Bitter Letter from GCA to CDG - on their alliance to defeat CFC/Poly
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...263#post2146263
GCA is winning against CDG, what should Apolyton do ?
Http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...043#post2185043
GCA Great Leader discussion
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...669#post2177669
Jul 20 - Turn 91 750BC - GCA established embassy with Apolyton
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=92645
Aug 27 - Border Agreement signed
Http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...073#post2288073
Sep 2 - Turning up the heat
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...683#post2303683
4. Technology Exchanges
Apr 15 - GCA to give Apolyton Writing in exchange for Warrior Code & the Wheel
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...840#post1913840
May 13 - GCA to give Mysticism and Polytheism in exchange for HRB and Map Making
Http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...486#post1991486
Discussion on giving GCA Mapmaking
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...583#post2263583
Actual Trades :
May 3 - Turn 48 1870BC- Received Writing from GCA.
Jul 3 - Turn 78 1075BC - Received Mysticism from GCA for Horseback Riding
Jul 28 - Turn 98 630BC - Received Polytheism from GCA for CoL, Mathematics
5. Military Discussion
Luck of the RPG ? Discussion with Lucky.
Http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...107#post2249107
Intelligence from CFC on GCA
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...497#post2290497
CFC attacking units on a mountain ?
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...336#post2261336
Polyton Preparing for War with GCA
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...744#post2241744
Gathering Intelligence on GCA
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...525#post2275525
Declaration of War Letter (Draft)
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...900#post2332900
6. Miscellaneous
Look at BigFree's drawing of our Landmass 
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...479#post1857479
Thanks, Rush!
Everything you want to know about CGN - by Rush
Update: Turn 123, Oct 9th, 2003.
CITY STATUS
Summary : No significant change from Turn 122 to Turn 123. 2 Cities population increased - Waterloo, Hannibal.
Note : City status analysis starts on Turn 122 - after we exchanged World Map with CGN.
1. Arhus - sitting on Grassland, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 9
2. Micco - Plain, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 8
3. Newark - Grassland, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 6
4. Bretten - Hills, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 3
5. Hannibal - Grassland, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 6
Turn 123 - Population increase to 7
6. Hull - Tundra, no Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 1
7. Trois-Rivieres - Grassland, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 7
8. Rockford - Grassland, Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2
9. Marion - Tundra, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2
10. Siegen - Hills, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2
11. Northamption - Grassland, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 5
12. Saxton - Grassland, no Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 3
13. Arlington - Plains, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 4
14. Floral Park - Grassland, Unable to determine whether city has culture
Turn 122 - Pop 8
15. Seven oaks - Plain, Unable to determine whether city has culture
Turn 122 - Pop 5
16. Columbus - Plain, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 3
17. Tampere - Grassland, no Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 1
18. El Amarna - Grassland, no Culture (Note : City from Firaxis)
Turn 122 - Pop 2
19. Perris - Hills, No Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2
20. Waterloo - Hills, has Culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2
Turn 123 - Population increased to 3
21. Agincourt - Hills, No culture
Turn 122 - Pop 2
RESOURCE STATUS
Wheat - 5, Cattle - 6, Game - 3, Iron - 2, Horse - 2, Spice - 4, Game - 3, Gold - 1, Fish - 1, Wines - 5, Ivory - 1
Thanks, Rush!
Who has had their Golden Age?
Update: Turn 118, Sep 20th, 2003.
CDG have had their Golden Age around Turn 79.
Poly plans its Golden Age as soon as the war with GCA starts.
Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 10-10-2003 at 01:53
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BigFurryMonster
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EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:28
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Tresury Analysis
A clever idea by asleepathewheel:
quote:
Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever figured out the formula for capturing gold? Would be interesting to extrapolate how much gold their civ has if they lost 8 in DNA. Is it a random amount from the treasury, or is it a set percentage of the whole nation or based on the city's individual income? I've never paid attention to that stuff, but it might be useful in such a slow paced game with lots of brain power. |
Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 03-10-2003 at 18:44
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BigFurryMonster
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EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:28
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Wonders of the World
Wonders built
Update: Turn 125, Oct 9th, 2003.
- Pyramids in Parthemünde (GWT) in Turn ...
- Great Library in Catchopolis (GCA) in Turn 125.
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WONDERS OF THE WORLD
200-Shield Wonders
The Colossus <--- started the GWT Golden Age
The Great Wall - CGN (Ind), ACS (Ind), CFC (Mil+Ind)
300-Shield Wonders
The Oracle - GWT (Rel)
The Great Lighthouse - GWT (Exp), ACS (Com)
The Hanging Gardens - CGN (Ind), ACS (Ind), CFC (Ind)
400-Shield Wonders
The Pyramids
The Great Library
Copernicus' Observatory - GWT (Exp)
Magellan's Voyage - GWT (Exp), ACS (Com)
Newton's University - CGN (Sci)
Shakespeare's Theatre
600-Shield Wonders
Sun Szu's Art of War - CFC (Mil)
Leonardo's Workshop - CFC (Mil)
Sistine Chapel - GWT (Rel)
JS Bach's Cathedral (Music Theory) - GWT (Rel)
Smith's Trading Company - ACS (Com)
Theory of Evolution - CGN (Sci)
800-Shield Wonders
Universal Suffrage - CFC (Mil)
Hoover Dam - CGN (Ind), ACS (Ind), CFC (Ind)
The Manhattan Project - CGN (Ind), ACS (Ind), CFC (Ind+Mil)
1000-Shield Wonders
The United Nations (Fission) - ACS (Com)
SETI Program (Computers) - GWT (Exp)
The Internet (Minitiarization) - ANY
Cure for Cancer (Genetics) - CGN (Sci)
Longevity (Genetics) - CGN (Sci)
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APOLYTON CIVILIZATION SITE (ACS)
Commercial Trait:
The Colossus (200 shields)
The Great Lighthouse (300 shields)
Magellan's Voyage (400 shields)
Smith's Trading Company (600 shields)
The United Nations (1000 shields)
The Internet (1000 shields)
Industrious Trait:
The Great Wall (200 shields)
The Hanging Gardens (300 shields)
Hoover Dam (800 shields)
Manhattan Project (800 shields)
The Internet (1000 shields)
----------------------------------------
CIVILIZATION FANATICS CENTER (CFC)
Militaristic Trait:
The Great Wall (200 shields)
Sun Szu's Art of War (600 shields)
Leonardo's Workshop (600 shields)
Universal Suffrage (800 shields)
Manhattan Project (800 shields)
The Internet (1000 shields)
Industrious Trait:
The Great Wall (200 shields)
The Hanging Gardens (300 shields)
Hoover Dam (800 shields)
Manhattan Project (800 shields)
The Internet (1000 shields)
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CIVILIZATION GAMING NETWORK (CGN)
Scientific Trait:
Newton's University (400 shields)
Theory of Evolution (600 shields)
The Internet (1000 shields)
Cure for Cancer (1000 shields)
Longevity (1000 shields)
Industrious Trait:
The Great Wall (200 shields)
The Hanging Gardens (300 shields)
Hoover Dam (800 shields)
Manhattan Project (800 shields)
The Internet (1000 shields)
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GERMAN WEBRING TEAM (GWT)
Religious Trait:
*Already Fulfilled by The Pyramids*
The Colossus (200 shields)
The Oracle (300 shields)
Sistine Chapel[/b] (600 shields)
JS Bach's Cathedral (600 shields)
The Internet (1000 shields)
Expansionistic Trait:
The Colossus (200 shields)
The Great Lighthouse (300 shields)
Copernicus' Observatory (400 shields)
Magellan's Voyage (400 shields)
SETI Program (1000 shields)
The Internet (1000 shields)
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GWT almost certainly is planning to start their GA with the Ansar Warrior and thus has little need to plan on starting their GA with a second wonder, but ANY expansionist wonder would accomplish the job, the cheapest of which is the Colossus (200 shields). Given GWT's apparent focus on military methods for achieving success in the game, it is far more likely that their wonder-building will be focused on such wonders as Leondardo's Workshop and Sun Szu's Art of War in the immediate future, though the Sistine Chapel (to increase the power of their cheap temples) is likely another priority.
CGN is likely going to start their GA with their Sipahi UU because while hoping to start it with The Great Wall or The Hanging Gardens may be possible, those wonders are probably not appealing enough to CGN to justify the shield expense on merely a CHANCE of starting their GA. The nearest scientific wonders, meanwhile, come about around the same time their UU will arrive on the scene and solve the issue for them. I imagine that CGN will be focused on the same wonders as GWT in the immediate future, Leondardo's Workshop and the Sistine Chapel.
CFC could build The Great Wall and achieve their GA automatically, but it is unlikely that they will be albe to accomplish this. So they will want to start their GA either through using riders (presumably against us unless they can discover Navigation and use them on the other continent, which is unlikely) or through wonders, in which case it will be difficult for them to build both an industrious wonder and/or a militaristic wonder before another civilization. The wonders they need for their GA are under high demand: the militaristic wonders because everyone wants to build them and the industrious wonders because everyone other than GWT is industrious. That said, if Apolyton starts its GA with The Colossus and (likely) has no desire to build The Hanging Gardens, this wonder would probably be a safe bet for CFC to fulfill their industrious trait. As for their militaristic trait, this is going to be far more of a problem if they don't get lucky with The Hanging Gardens. Every single team will be seeking to build Leonardo's Workshop and CFC is the least likely to be able to pull it off. Sun Szu's Art of War might seem a natural fallback, but it is both expensive and the likely fallback for any of Apolyton, CGN, or GWT that do not get either Leonardo's Workshop, the Sistine Chapel, or JS Bach's Cathedral. I'd suggest that perhaps we might try to help them secure agreements from CGN and GWT that no-one will build Sun Szu's Art of War other than CFC, but that would make it far too apparent that we are the ones who plan to build The Great Wall. Perhaps once The Great Wall is already complete, we could go about doing this to show that we wish to compensate CFC for not getting their GA through either riders (against us) or The Great Wall. Might not work to stop them from attacking us, but does provide both an avenue to handle the issue of their GA and shows them that we are conscientious about helping them in this respect in order to avoid a conflict. No guarantee that will help, though........
For us, the obvious thing to do in terms of wonders seems to be that we should build The Colossus and The Great Wall immediately. Our fallback for The Great Wall is The Hanging Gardens and our fallback for The Colossus can be The Great Lighthouse. For the future, Leonardo's Workshop seems to be the clear choice around here, but we are likely to be in high competition for it unless the other continent is mired in a war WITHOUT their golden ages in order to compete with our own. Beyond Leonardo's Workshop, I am not clear on what the optimal wonders will be. The Sistine Chapel is a good wonder, but will also likely have stiff competition, as will JS Bachs's Cathedral among those who fail to build the Sistine Chapel. In the future, Smith's Trading Company is probably the one we could most use, followed by Copernicus' Observatory and Newton's College if we have a city we can build them in and beat CGN and GWT to finishing them. It is unlikely we will be able to build all of these wonders, however, and we will need to prioritze in what order we wish them built or switched to if another beats us in the race for the one(s) we wanted.
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EDIT by Arnelos: BFM asked me to add this in here.
Last edited by Arnelos on 30-01-2004 at 11:03
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BigFurryMonster
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EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
time: 06:28
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Army strength updated: we know a little bit more about CDG now.
edit: In response to the question above: they will see themselves as strong compared to us, since 80% and 125% are inverse numbers.
Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 29-05-2003 at 21:35
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Apolyton Time is 00:28. |
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26-05-2003 01:28
Thanks. 
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