27-05-2003 02:48									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I am saying spending responsibly will work.

I agree with that. However, apparently we have different opinions on how to define "responsibly"

	27-05-2003 02:51									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid I agree with that. However, apparently we have different opinions on how to define "responsibly"

Having an entire class of people living off welfare is not responsible. That is something that doesn't quite get through the minds of some Europeans. Well I am a European that understands that basic concept.

	27-05-2003 03:04									#33
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quote: Your dutch system is quite good. It's the German system I'm talking about. Do you know that 1/4 of all German companies think about fleeing their native country?

It's the same over here

Fez:

quote: You **** off.. you have no clue what you are talking about. You know nothing about economic productivity.

you are right. I know nothing about economic productivity. But I happen to know something about not be giving the chance to be productive and let me assure you, it's no easy ride, even with all the benefits we have over here.

You ever on the brink of losing your house? Begging your parents, family and friends for money? No? Thought so... So why don't you just shut up about things you don't have a clue about?

	27-05-2003 03:06									#34
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We're only living off welfare because there's no ruddy jobs. And there's no jobs because of the capitalist system that forces companies to be "profitable" instead of productive.

Of course right-wing rich gits can't be expected to understand the concept, and will shoot me down, but I'm living in Germany, I'm unempolyed and I'm Goddamm glad that we have such a nice welfare system, even if its just barely enough to live off. Who gives a damn about "responsibilty" and all that BS, people have to EAT and pay the RENT (unless mummy and daddy do that for you rich boys) In the real world its more important to feed your citizens than worry about some crappy economic principle. The government is committed to massive welfare spending, or 15-20% of the country will starve. To do this they NEED higher taxes or the country will sink into a pit of debt like America.

Grrr I'm going to stick my head under the shower

-Jam

	27-05-2003 03:08									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij you are right. I know nothing about economic productivity. But I happen to know something about not be giving the chance to be productive and let me assure you, it's no easy ride, even with all the benefits we have over here.

No kidding. I am going to be figuring that out when I move out. When I have to take out a loan because of my dad's spending habits. I will be paying off loans until I am 50, like he did.

It is never an easy ride. And hard work, determination is what is necessary. Not excessive state funding.

quote: You ever on the brink of losing your house? Begging your parents, family and friends for money? No? Thought so... So why don't you just shut up about things you don't have a clue about?

I don't have a clue about? Oh please... I was in the lower middle class for a good part of my life. My parents had problems paying the bills. They are better off now but only because my dad worked and worked. My dad could of been way better off working for an petroleum company.. but guess what.. he didn't because he was too far away from the family too long. So he went for a lower paying job in the US government.. and eventually worked his way through.

I know what it is like when my family doesn't have enough money.

My dad and along of millions of other people didn't succeed by state covering.. they did it themselves.

The type of stupid spending you are proposing is completely irresponsible.

So please don't tell me what I don't know.

	27-05-2003 03:10									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski We're only living off welfare because there's no ruddy jobs. And there's no jobs because of the capitalist system that forces companies to be "profitable" instead of productive. Of course right-wing rich gits can't be expected to understand the concept, and will shoot me down, but I'm living in Germany, I'm unempolyed and I'm Goddamm glad that we have such a nice welfare system, even if its just barely enough to live off. Who gives a damn about "responsibilty" and all that BS, people have to EAT and pay the RENT (unless mummy and daddy do that for you rich boys) In the real world its more important to feed your citizens than worry about some crappy economic principle. The government is committed to massive welfare spending, or 15-20% of the country will starve. To do this they NEED higher taxes or the country will sink into a pit of debt like America. Grrr I'm going to stick my head under the shower -Jam

Anything new? You sound like the "United Left" in my country. Always complaining about the companies that are productive and bring in a profit.

Why don't you just nationalize everything while you are at it? Let the state take over everything?

Lets see how things will go then.

The spending your propose will ensure a total destruction to your national economy.

	27-05-2003 03:12									#37
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@ Fez : You have such a sheltered life. Really you have no idea what its like to be poor. Could you live on 50-60 dollars/euros a week Go and ask your daddy for a loan.

-Jam

	27-05-2003 03:13									#38
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I love the unemployment benefits in Belgium... the socialist union pays me 300€ a month just for sitting on my ass

	27-05-2003 03:13									#39
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Jamski, if you would of bothered reading my post. You would find that type of rhetoric is a crock of ****. I didn't have a sheltered life for a large portion of my life. I know how it is to be poor.

In fact, my family is Spain were all farmers and very poor up until ten years ago.. when Spain threw off economic recession and grew.

	27-05-2003 03:15									#40
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quote: The spending your propose will ensure a total destruction to your national economy.

Who gives a damn?

No really, who gives a damn about the "national economy"? Its not putting a shirt on my back, or food on my table or a roof over my head, its just making STOCK HOLDERS richer.

At least in the GDR everyone had a job. Now there's areas of E. Germany with 35% unemployment. Yes, nationalise everything if its better that way.

-Jam

	27-05-2003 03:18									#41
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Do you really suggest that Germany stops paying welfare money Fez? Yes or No? Nearly a quarter of the population are dependant on it.

Should Germany stop paying welfare money? Answer please.

-Jam

	27-05-2003 03:21									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Who gives a damn?

Go move to Somalia and you will see who gives a damn.

quote: No really, who gives a damn about the "national economy"? Its not putting a shirt on my back, or food on my table or a roof over my head, its just making STOCK HOLDERS richer.

What a crock of ****!

quote: At least in the GDR everyone had a job. Now there's areas of E. Germany with 35% unemployment. Yes, nationalise everything if its better that way. -Jam

In the GDR people had adminstrative jobs... or sit around and do nothing jobs. That is why the system collapsed.

I think we got a soviet era communist here...

quote: Do you really suggest that Germany stops paying welfare money Fez? Yes or No? Nearly a quarter of the population are dependant on it.

Restructure the system. And stop paying some of it. It is irresponsible. Those who could work should work.

	27-05-2003 03:25									#43
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quote: Those who could work should work

They can't. End of story. There ARE NO JOBS.
And the amount people get is just enough to live on.

So, do you cut the welfare?

-Jam

	27-05-2003 03:25									#44
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Could we actually have some interesting discussion here? This thread is getting Fez'd.

Re German growth, I just wonder how y'all will get out of this situation relatively quickly.

	27-05-2003 03:26									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski They can't. End of story. There ARE NO JOBS. And the amount people get is just enough to live on. So, do you cut the welfare? -Jam

Well then to create true jobs means to stimulate the economy.

Yes cut welfare immediately and stimulate the private sector to create jobs. That is something Germany is not doing.

	27-05-2003 03:27									#46
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Could we actually have some interesting discussion here? This thread is getting Fez'd. Re German growth, I just wonder how y'all will get out of this situation relatively quickly.

What the ****? I am trying to have an interesting discussion. And you bring in that term in here. Jeez.. can I talk in peace without you people bringing in that term to slander me?

	27-05-2003 03:29									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Yes cut welfare immediately and stimulate the private sector to create jobs. That is something Germany is not doing.

Let loose millions of people and the economy will improve?

I should've expect such from the likes of you, Fez

	27-05-2003 03:29									#48
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quote: Yes cut welfare immediately and stimulate the private sector to create jobs.

Which would create widespread poverty and help the rich get richer. Typical BS capitalist "didn't think" answer.

quote: That is something Germany is not doing.

For the above reason.

Next please, Fez has bored me already. Does anyone have some workable ideas for the German Economy?

-Jam

	27-05-2003 03:30									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Fez What the ****? I am trying to have an interesting discussion. And you bring in that term in here. Jeez.. can I talk in peace without you people bringing in that term to slander me?

I like to say that an arguement is only as good as its lowest point and a debate is only as good as its weakest member.

When you enter the debate Fez....Well, lets just say the averege intelligence level of the debate drops quite dramatically

	27-05-2003 03:31									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Which would create widespread poverty and help the rich get richer. Typical BS capitalist "didn't think" answer.

You are a the anti-thinker here. Get a clue.. if you put everybody on welfare as you propose the system will go bankrupt. You won't have any more money to pay for the system. You will then end up in the state Argentina is in.

quote: For the above reason. Next please, Fez has bored me already. Does anyone have some workable ideas for the German Economy? -Jam

Anything but your irresponsible ideas..

Tass, you like the soviet union and economic disfunctionality.. so what do I expect from you..

	27-05-2003 03:32									#51
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No need to attack Fez, he only does as well as he can. Its not his fault if he doesn't understand the issues, so don't tell him he's stupid, just because he's uneducated.

-Jam

	27-05-2003 03:32									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 When you enter the debate Fez....Well, lets just say the averege intelligence level of the debate drops quite dramatically

Stop talking about yourself and your little debates you twit.

	27-05-2003 03:33									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Tass, you like the soviet union and economic disfunctionality.. so what do I expect from you..

I like economic disfunctionality? I'm not the one proposing that millions of people become poor so the companies can get richer, now am I?

Try again Fez, for you have lost this battle

	27-05-2003 03:33									#54
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quote: Anything but your irresponsible ideas..

Which I didn't even mention yet, O psychic Fez.

-Jam

	27-05-2003 03:34									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski No need to attack Fez, he only does as well as he can. Its not his fault if he doesn't understand the issues, so don't tell him he's stupid, just because he's uneducated. -Jam

SHUT UP! For once.. just zip it.

You call me uneducated.. why is it so hard for you to grasp simple economic terms? You are the uneducated one around here. You cannot even work for a living because your own gross incompetence.

	27-05-2003 03:35									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I like economic disfunctionality? I'm not the one proposing that millions of people become poor so the companies can get richer, now am I?

Bull ****. I am not proposing that either. I am proposing an improved and more productive economy. And you are proposing economic degradation.

quote: Try again Fez, for you have lost this battle

I NEVER lose in the field of economics. That is something that will never happen. Especially not to a couple of raving lunatics.

	27-05-2003 03:36									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Fez You call me uneducated.. why is it so hard for you to grasp simple economic terms? You are the uneducated one around here. You cannot even work for a living because your own gross incompetence.

Poor Fezzy He's getting angry

Jamski, maybe you should lighten up. I dont think he can stand the heat

	27-05-2003 03:37									#58
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I can't stand the heat? I am doing a lot better than your leftist thugs.



You propose nothing but turning the entire world into a worldwide Somalia!

	27-05-2003 03:38									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Fez And you are proposing economic degradation.

The glorious part of this however is that

I HAVENT PROPOSED ANYTHING!!!

Just another display of your stupidity, Fez

quote: I NEVER lose in the field of economics. That is something that will never happen. Especially not to a couple of raving lunatics.

And there are no American infidels in Baghdad

	27-05-2003 03:39									#60
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Whoooooo!

Are you angry with me Fez

quote: You cannot even work for a living because your own gross incompetence

I have no job because of people who think that a company will make more money with less staff. My college and university education, which entitles me to the title of doctor, BTW, clearly demonstrates MY incompetence. You are right Fez, the unempolyed just don't want to work do they, they like being poor, and they're too stuipid to get a job.

Why don't you die, or something less annoying like that?

-Jam