26-05-2003 22:26									#1
	HO: Germany in Recession Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Teutonic plague

So far I'm feeling pretty confident. All the US has to do is avoid a recession itself.

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	26-05-2003 23:38									#2
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tell me about it.
since 1990 Germany seems to be in a recession 90% of the time....according to our newspapers.

	26-05-2003 23:53									#3
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Yup, we're ALWAYS going down the toilet here. The only news is bad news - FOR YEARS.

Stopped even thinking about it.

-Jam

	26-05-2003 23:54									#4
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Small surprise, given most of the world is in one, including the US (though not officially).

	26-05-2003 23:58									#5
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Thing is, Che, that's what was going on for quite some time there.

	27-05-2003 00:11									#6
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Small surprise, given most of the world is in one, including the US (though not officially).

You could say we are still in the recession that started in 2001, but the bet I made with HO is on GDP growth. Since GDP is still growing in the US I feel confident

	27-05-2003 00:12									#7
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It doesn't surprise me at all since Germany is taxing its business to death. Spiegel just recently reported that as much as 25% of the business plan to move out of the country.

	27-05-2003 00:27									#8
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What I don't understand with the economist is its admiration for greenspanesque statism.

Apart from that, just wait. We have a timeline out to 2006.

	27-05-2003 00:34									#9
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler What I don't understand with the economist is its admiration for greenspanesque statism. Apart from that, just wait. We have a timeline out to 2006.

Actually they are slightly critical of AG for being too conservative with the monetary stimulus.

	27-05-2003 00:36									#10
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if the german work ethic can fail, i don't know whats real anymore.

all you dudes need to boost your economy is another world war. we're cooking one up now, and if you act fast, you can be on the winning side for once.

	27-05-2003 00:36									#11
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Well because Germany has failed to move itself away from the old 80s era industries it is paying the price. Germany lately has a history of highly irresponsible socialist spending schemes... especially in the last decade. This needs to be cut in order to give businesses more freedom to restructure. Labor rigidities must be eliminated.

The US is not in recession but slow growth. GDP growth is still positive..

	27-05-2003 00:43									#12
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it´s not only the socialists. it´s our constitution which makes it difficult to pass laws and new reforms. we have no checks and balances like the USA does. SPD and CDU, our two great parties, always loop each other out when it is about reforming the economy - even when they mainly agee.

quote: all you dudes need to boost your economy is another world war. we're cooking one up now, and if you act fast, you can be on the winning side for once.

no prob, if we get another marshall plan after.

	27-05-2003 00:56									#13
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"Actually they are slightly critical of AG for being too conservative with the monetary stimulus."

Which is utterly ridiculous, facing the most reckless and most incompetent central bank in the history of western central banking post WW2.

"have no checks and balances like the USA does."

Not at all. You have too many checks and balances.

	27-05-2003 00:57									#14
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quote: Originally posted by oedo no prob, if we get another marshall plan after.

oh, and not only do you get to win, you STILL might get to roll over France!!!!

we'll get back to you on that one.

	27-05-2003 00:58									#15
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quote: Not at all. You have too many checks and balances.

what I mean is our politicians can´t handle them.

	27-05-2003 00:59									#16
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Depends on the political landscape. But the worst of all worlds is the opposition having a 2/3rds majority in the Bundesrat. Like now.

	27-05-2003 02:01									#17
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quote: highly irresponsible socialist spending schemes...

Care to elaborate?...

	27-05-2003 02:09									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij quote: highly irresponsible socialist spending schemes... Care to elaborate?...

If unemployed earn more for doing nothing than owners of a healthy small business, then something is wrong.

	27-05-2003 02:12									#19
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Yeah, Hueij, your unemployment benefits do suck. ( Actually, they're great for unemployed people, but not good, in the big picture )

	27-05-2003 02:21									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij quote: highly irresponsible socialist spending schemes... Care to elaborate?...

Irresponsible as in anti-capitalist.

These programmes drain away R&D money from businesses whether small, medium or large sized. This drains productivity and inturns cause economic disparities such as high unemployment and poor growth. That is the problem with such iresponsiblity. Your government is mortaging the future for the temporary convenience of the present.

Azazel, I thought you were a communist?

	27-05-2003 02:24									#21
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX if the german work ethic can fail, i don't know whats real anymore. all you dudes need to boost your economy is another world war. we're cooking one up now, and if you act fast, you can be on the winning side for once.

	27-05-2003 02:25									#22
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quote: Yeah, Hueij, your unemployment benefits do suck.

Okay, there's no way I can win this argument when you come up with facts like this. You win...

Lord M: Sorry, but this is BS. In the Netherlands (the best unemployment benefists in the world) the up benefits are just high enough to pay your rent and pay for your groceries. If you make that little money while owning your own business, there's no way you'll be succesfull.

	27-05-2003 02:32									#23
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Unemployment benefits as those do nothing but damage the economy and drain industry. It is stupid to do such things. People living on welfare are not productive. They are draining productivity thus driving up unemployment.

It is irresponsible to think these are good.

	27-05-2003 02:37									#24
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Ok, darlings. Which one of you can give me a short description of german unemployment benefits without googling?

	27-05-2003 02:39									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Fez People living on welfare are not productive.

People dying without welfare are not particularly productive either

	27-05-2003 02:39									#26
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Ok, darlings. Which one of you can give me a short description of german unemployment benefits without googling?

Simple. Overgenerous and irresponsible. I said it three times already. These benefits are taxing industries to a point where they cannot afford to make changes in their productivity.

	27-05-2003 02:40									#27
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quote: Unemployment benefits as those do nothing but damage the economy and drain industry. It is stupid to do such things. People living on welfare are not productive. They are draining productivity thus driving up unemployment. It is irresponsible to think these are good.

How old are you Fez? Ever had to pay your own bills? Ever been unemployed?

Trying to find excuses to not go to your brothers birthday because you didn't have the money for a train ticket, let alone a present? Thought so, so just **** of, you don't know what you are talking about.

	27-05-2003 02:40									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid People dying without welfare are not particularly productive either

I never proposed that. In fact you are putting stupid words where they don't belong. I am saying spending responsibly will work. Many European countries are not doing so, these include France, Germany and Sweden.

	27-05-2003 02:42									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij How old are you Fez? Ever had to pay your own bills? Ever been unemployed?

Your attempt to bring in age in this shows how little you have.

quote: Trying to find excuses to not go to your brothers birthday because you didn't have the money for a train ticket, let alone a present? Thought so, so just **** of, you don't know what you are talking about.

Your irresponsiblity, the nationwide irresponsiblity in your country has jeopardized the future of everybody in your country.

You **** off.. you have no clue what you are talking about. You know nothing about economic productivity.

	27-05-2003 02:43									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij quote: Yeah, Hueij, your unemployment benefits do suck. Okay, there's no way I can win this argument when you come up with facts like this. You win... Lord M: Sorry, but this is BS. In the Netherlands (the best unemployment benefists in the world) the up benefits are just high enough to pay your rent and pay for your groceries. If you make that little money while owning your own business, there's no way you'll be succesfull.

Your dutch system is quite good. It's the German system I'm talking about. Do you know that 1/4 of all German companies think about fleeing their native country?