27-05-2003 20:50									#31
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Because they made the effort, Mike. We've reached now a critical level where newcomers don't feel the need to integrate because there are so many of them.

It's not like we have a labour shortage.

	27-05-2003 20:50									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Rothy I dont see how this video is anything to do with the BNP?? It's about 1.8b of OUR Money (Yes, find the workforce of the UK and divide that figure by it, you'll be suprised how much it is costing YOU) being lost because our Incompetant government is ruining our once Great Britain. Then imagine how much worse that scenario would become if we were in Europe and no control over the issue (do you really think Brussells would have any interest in changing the status quo??)

A quick check of the Home Office website shows that of all asylum applications for 2001 and 2002 some 40% have come from Iraq, Afghanistan (which has consistently declined quarter on quarter since the removal of the Taliban), Zimbabwe and Somalia.

The answer to the asylum problem seems obvious. Sort out the problems in their country so that they don't need asylum. A £1.8 billion budget would come in handy for that.

I even heard one amusing comment that the real reason for the war on Iraq was not oil, not WoMD, not overthrowing an oppressive dictatorship, but to reduce the number of asylum seekers coming to Britain.

	27-05-2003 20:53									#33
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"A quick check of the Home Office website shows that of all asylum applications for 2001 and 2002 some 40% have come from Iraq, Afghanistan (which has consistently declined quarter on quarter since the removal of the Taliban), Zimbabwe and Somalia."

What do you want us to infer from this, please?

	27-05-2003 20:55									#34
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Use your brain for once Bod's.

	27-05-2003 21:04									#35
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The same statistics show that 25% of applicants come originally from Europe!

	27-05-2003 21:11									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Because they made the effort, Mike. We've reached now a critical level where newcomers don't feel the need to integrate because there are so many of them. It's not like we have a labour shortage.

We do in critical areas like nursing and teaching, nursing especially is an area where immigrants are now essential to the NHS.

	27-05-2003 21:11									#37
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Bodds, for several hundred years my country was under British rule. For the most part, the British settlers made no attempt to integrate with the local population; they confiscating their lands and imposed their religion, beliefs and language upon the Irish people. No doubt a large amount of immigrants into Britain are from other former colonies that experienced the same treatment. And now because the chickens of your Empire are coming home to roost, you don't like it? It was OK for the British to do it to the rest of the world, but the reverse doesn't apply. All I can say is what comes around goes around.

I believe that the asylum situation in Britain, and indeed throughout Europe, badly needs to be redressed. The lack of enforcement of the Treaty of Dublin is extremely annoying, as is the oudated bureaucracy that manages the entire procedure. The drastic measures proposed by such parties as the BNP however strike my as complete hypocrisy given Britains history and are a complete overreaction to the situation.

But I did find the video hilarious I must say. Using the Pet Shop Boys 'Go West' was brilliant.

	27-05-2003 21:16									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's The same statistics show that 25% of applicants come originally from Europe!

Yeah Kosova, Albania, Serbia etc etc. All very pleasant countries I am sure.

	27-05-2003 21:21									#39
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH We do in critical areas like nursing and teaching, nursing especially is an area where immigrants are now essential to the NHS.

The West currently harms developing countries more by taking their talented workers than by any restrictions on trade.

But if you're happy with that...?

	27-05-2003 21:24									#40
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If you opened up the trade barriers, let the developing countries get more money, improve themselves then fewer of their skilled people would want to leave. Circular argument isn't it?

	27-05-2003 21:26									#41
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By stopping immigration, that process would be a heck of a lot quicker. By taking just the talent, you are leaving an inferior genetic pool.

	27-05-2003 21:27									#42
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Well said Starchild

I do agree with one point of the video, those that have their asylum rejected should be sent back. That is very true. I have no problem with multi-culturalism, with making sure those that need it are accepted, and with the new European asylum policy, I just think we need to deport those that are found to be here illegally.

As much as I disagree with many of Bods opinions, I have to see the logic in the bottom quote from his sig. I don't think it makes a difference to how people should be treated or anything, but I think we should acknowledge the differences.

	27-05-2003 21:29									#43
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Drop the trade barriers and you start preventing the immigration problem at source. Surely prevention's better than a cure?

Or are you saying that you think we should change our immigration policy to only allow in people who have absolutely no skills which would be useful to their native countries then?

	27-05-2003 21:31									#44
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Or are you saying that you think we should change our immigration policy to only allow in people who have absolutely no skills which would be useful to their native countries then?

No, I am merely pointing out that these things aren't that simple. We might be benefitting the rich individuals who can pay smugglers to get them here, but we are leaving behind poorer and less well-educated populace.

So the BNP could in fact help developing countries with their policies, not harm them. See?

	27-05-2003 21:37									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue As much as I disagree with many of Bods opinions, I have to see the logic in the bottom quote from his sig.

Skull-measurements have been tried before, and failed.

	27-05-2003 21:37									#46
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Of course, things aren't that simple either way.

Some people should come into the country as asylum seekers, some as genuine economic immigrants and some should be sent home. Working out who's who is the hard bit.

	27-05-2003 21:38									#47
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They could, but they wouldn't. There are positive points, but not that many, and large negatives. I agree with Mike, drop the trade barriers, destroy the CAP (douse it in petrol and watch it burn ..... ) and remove illegal immigrants. That would solve a lot of ours and their problems IMHO.

	27-05-2003 22:38									#48
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The movie is cack, even the British flag is wrong.

	27-05-2003 23:32									#49
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Mike,

quote: Some people should come into the country as asylum seekers, some as genuine economic immigrants and some should be sent home. Working out who's who is the hard bit.

Yes. Do you think, if we had enough information, and knowing that taking the best would-be migrants can harm a country as much as a tariff does, that we should be able to pick and choose legal immigrants?

Drogue,

quote: drop the trade barriers, destroy the CAP (douse it in petrol and watch it burn ..... ) and hastily remove illegal immigrants. That would solve a lot of ours and their problems IMHO.

My bold.

	27-05-2003 23:35									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Skull-measurements have been tried before, and failed.

I was more refering to the athletics part. Look at any major 100 metre final, and at most you will see 2 out of the 8 runners being white. The last Olympics, not a single white male runner made it. Its all about fast twich muscles, how fast someone can sprint, and is genetic. With all the training in the world, most people cannot get that fast. And generally, looking at results, black runners seem to have more fast twitch muscles.

As for intelligence, it's so hard to measure, and there are so many socio-economic factors that it is impossible to measure. I have no idea about skull measurements.

	27-05-2003 23:44									#51
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If blacks were as intelligent as say Europeans, why is Africa in the main the basket case it is?

	27-05-2003 23:53									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's If blacks were as intelligent as say Europeans, why is Africa in the main the basket case it is?

Climate.

	27-05-2003 23:55									#53
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Natural resources, climate (big one, both drought and floods), lack of investment and being owned by European nations who exploited them when they should have been developing themselves. I hate to say it, but we started much of this mess

	28-05-2003 00:00									#54
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Africa was never a serious contender for developement, much before European Colonialism.

[/devil's advocate]

	28-05-2003 00:03									#55
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quote: being owned by European nations who exploited them when they should have been developing themselves. I hate to say it, but we started much of this mess

Bollocks. Most of the major trouble started when the colonies paid less and less attention to them.

	28-05-2003 00:04									#56
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Drouge: I'm glad that you didn't mean the intelligence part. The argumentation is still faulty from the start though. Since the definition of 'black' isn't really something that's useful in a serious attempt to measure anything. The Bushmen are hardly included amoungst the group of people that have the ability to become olympic winners in 100 meters. The skin-colour in itself tells us very little about the other genes the person has.

Boddington is out in the blue as usual. Even if the small and insignificant differences that can be found have some sort of reality to them- I seriously doubt it as there's probably not possible to construct a unbiased test of any sorts - it's surely not in itself enough to explain the huge differences in, oh lets say, GDP per capita.

	28-05-2003 00:22									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's If blacks were as intelligent as say Europeans, why is Africa in the main the basket case it is?

Because people like you treated them like beasts, probably.

	28-05-2003 00:23									#58
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I like how the guy is dreaming of the hottie camal with lipstick on. Racist as hell but funny as hell too.

	28-05-2003 00:25									#59
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I thought it was ugly, and not funny.

Mind you, there were funny things in the video. ( like the music!)

	28-05-2003 00:25									#60
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Kropotkin: I meant that to show the difference. Sprints seem to be dominated by African Americans/West Indians. The same with the Steeplechase being dominated by one small mountain village in Kenya, geography has a lot to do with it.

http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/national_post_2001.htm seems quite interesting about it.

The point I am trying to make, is that those all races should be treated equally, and I abhore both the "race riots" and racism in general in the UK, we should acknowledge that, just like two people have different strengths and weaknesses, so may two nations, or ethnicities. I wouldn't call it different races (that wouldn't be true IMHO) but I think it is perfectly conceivable that people with one skin colour of background will dominate one thing, while another dominates something else.