28-05-2003 16:36									#91
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Why, what's wrong with it?








No, it's not really my name.

I know I'm a bit of an idealist. Like I said, there are legal economic imigrants, genuine asylum seekers and people posing as asylum seekers for economic reasons. Obviously we need to let the first two groups in and not the last. Which is the theory of what we do now. Maybe we just need to have a better process for dealing with that quickly and fairly. Maybe the process isn't that bad but the system's a bit overloaded and can't cope.

	28-05-2003 16:38									#92
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While this thread touches a number of interesting issues that one should be able to talk about in a civilized manner, I think it's quite impossible to do this. Both rah and MtG noticed this as they closed the spin-off thread started by Bods. The problem is that we as a group has not the knowledge or the ability to in distinguish the few things that can be investigated with scientific methods and conceptions that are based on prejudice or miss-conceptions.

This lead to a impossible mixture of apples and organges. MikeH just pointed out that there's such a thing as good, black chess-players. Drouge's probably doing the same misstake when it comes to the sherpas and their ability to climb on high altitudes. They've been born and lived on high altitudes all their life. This in turn has several effects on them that's not genetic in nature. As far as I know, the same thing can be observed amoungst european living in the alps. It's not just because they like thin air that many athletes spend a lot of time on high altitudes before a major competition.

This debate clearly lacks an analysis of the importance of the environment. The fastest men in the world are usually the decendant of slaves, living in the US, canada or some other american or european country. At the same time none of their forefathers decendants that managed to escape slavery have won a olympic gold in 100 meters.

For some reason the relative importance of genes compared to the environment is going back and forth as time goes by. This is why the issue must be handled in a very serious and careful way, something that many posters on apolyton can't or woun't do.

	28-05-2003 16:46									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue No, I think saying one ethnic group is better or worse overall,

"overall" is a vague term. But you say that one group of people is better than another group of people, basing it on their ethnic heritage. That's racism

quote: or should be treated differently is racist IMHO.

That's discriminatory, not racist.

quote: Are you saying that stating any difference between ethnic groups is racist and wrong? So saying that black people get less sunburn is racist? Or saying that Kenyan's or Sherpa's have better endurance is racist?

not any difference. But attaching distinct qualities based on ethnical basis? yes.

"sunburn" is not racist, since it's inherently true ( the reason why black people are black, is because of high amount of melanin pigment, that protects from sunburn ).

	28-05-2003 16:51									#94
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quote: "sunburn" is not racist, since it's inherently true

So if something is inherently true, then it can't be racist?

	28-05-2003 17:28									#95
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That video was just sad when it tried to be funny, and funny when it tried to be serious. Although the closing image of all the racist ***** sailing off to America leaving a country full of palm trees and camels behind would be something to look forward to.

	28-05-2003 17:30									#96
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quote: So if something is inherently true, then it can't be racist?

Exactly. part of the definition of being black is being more resistant to sunburn. being less smart is NOT part of the definition of being black.

	28-05-2003 17:31									#97
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"being less smart is NOT part of the definition of being black."

If it can be shown, then saying so becomes no longer racist?

	28-05-2003 17:38									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's "being less smart is NOT part of the definition of being black." If it can be shown, then saying so becomes no longer racist?

It won't be shown. It could be shown that people who possess genes for increased skin pigmentation are more likely to have genes for being born with smaller cranium, and thus (supposedly) more likely to be less intelligent, but as these genes are utterly different to the ones controlling skin colour, it becomes irrelevant.

And race will become increasingly indistinct over the following century anyway.

	28-05-2003 19:26									#99
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I know one great black chess player, kid in my class at Chicago. He is not professional, and probalby won't be. His main thing is mathematics, which is why as a junior in collge he got this internship to work in the NSA coding and decoding messages.

But I am sure Bods can do better than that.......