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Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
time: 21:28
  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:22
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Anti-War &quot;Activists&quot; vs Sick Children. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"City agencies in San Francisco added up the costs of the war protests that disrupted the city in March and came up with more than $3.5 million in expenses and lost revenue," the San Francisco Chronicle reports. That's $3.5 million less for the city to spend on food for the homeless and medical care for AIDS patients and sick kids. WE SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WHEN THEY SHOOT THEIR OFFICERS, read one sign at a March protest. How many San Franciscans died or suffered for want of crucial social services because these creeps insisted on taking to the streets to express their hateful views?

This is especially gualing to me since almost every city in the bay area is deep in the finaincial muck and now schools, public health clinics, BART, and just about everything else is going to suffer that much more because these people wanted to sit in the middle of roads, throw bottles at Police officers, block dock workers from going to work, and claim they were such model citizens.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:23
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How much did the war cost, O?

Enough to provide health care to everyone in the United States three times over, I'll bet.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:25
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What's really good about the San Fransisco Chronical article is that the Chronical is a far left paper and even they are upset at the anti-Bush fanatics.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:28
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The Chronicle fits the views of it's readership , but people of most ideologies don't want people shitting in their nests, whether those people have similar viewpoints or not.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
How much did the war cost, O?

Enough to provide health care to everyone in the United States three times over, I'll bet.


There is still the geo-strategic problem that the sanctions in Iraq were right up there with the Arab-Israel conflict in fanning anti-western feelings amoung Arabs. As long as Saddam was mucking things up the sanction could never be removed. Now, one of the Islamic Militants biggest recruiting tools is gone and Iraq is on it's way to slowingly climbing out of the hole 20 years of war has put them in.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


There is still the geo-strategic problem that the sanctions in Iraq were right up there with the Arab-Israel conflict in fanning anti-western feelings amoung Arabs. As long as Saddam was mucking things up the sanction could never be removed. Now, one of the Islamic Militants biggest recruiting tools is gone and Iraq is on it's way to slowingly climbing out of the hole 20 years of war has put them in.


Sing along O...

"I'm changing the subject... changing the subject I am,
I'm changing the suuuuuuuubject......"

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:32
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Not at all. I'm pointing out that one expenditure solved a very real problem while the other expenditure caused a very real problem. Activists=people who cost the city lots of money for no reason. War in Iraq=solve a major geopolitical problem.


Get it?

oedo is offline oedo
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:33 Visit oedo's homepage!
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Agathon pointed it out. those 3,5 mio $ are peanuts in comparison to the war costs.
stupid article, stupid thread.

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:33
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The sh!t that the morons in SF caused was so counter productive it is just unbelievable. Of course there is a cost to war, and now I guess there is a cost to peaceful protests. Blah!

Personally, I feel protesting is dumb, even if it is for a cause I support. Sitting around and whinning about something never gets anything done.

And, now we are paying for these whiners to whine.

Thnaks for riling me up Oerdin Thats exactly what I need for the drive home tonight.

quote:
How much did the war cost, O?


Quite a bit, but it accomplished something, and was done for a cause that not only protected those fools protesting, but liberated a nation.

quote:
Enough to provide health care to everyone in the United States three times over, I'll bet.


Ah.... That's what all the oil is for...duh

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:34
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Nice flame Oedo

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:34
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We've just pointed out the cost for one city. How many cities in the world had ruffins causing a ruckus?

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Not at all. I'm pointing out that one expenditure solved a very real problem while the other expenditure caused a very real problem. Activists=people who cost the city lots of money for no reason. War in Iraq=solve a major geopolitical problem.


That's not what you said.

And the notion that the war has solved a real problem is debatable while the cost isn't.

oedo is offline oedo
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:36 Visit oedo's homepage!
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quote:
Nice flame Oedo

yes, but at least for free

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:37 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Agathon back with his pro-Castro and pro-Saddam BS... I thought he did enough of this yesturday?

Those morons in San Francisco caused a lot of economic damage. If I were the mayor I'd demand that the organizations who organized the strikes pay reparations to the city.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Jan 2003
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I think its highly amusing that its the best people can do against the anti-war movement. One would have saved so much more by not going to war in the first place, not that money means anything to me for one, in this debate, althuogh the americans... a different story.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:43
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quote:
One would have saved so much more by not going to war in the first place


There is one VERY big problem with this argument. That money spent on the war WASN'T GOING to San Francisco city services. It wasn't going to be spent on healthcare. That money (if anything) was either going to the military or paying back the debt.

However, the money LOST by the anti-war protesters WAS going to San Francisco city services!

Countering the argument that San Fran lost 3.5 mil due to war protests with the 'war cost more' is like saying state funded public schools would be better if the US didn't have a military .

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:44 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Or I say declare state of emergency like they did in Peru.. and say "NO! You are not messing with lives of normal people. Clear the streets now... or else."

But then again.. nobody would ever dare giving me any form of power... which will corrupt me completely into utter power abuse.

Anyways, the Anti-war movement is a joke. They will get ignored like always. This ain't the 70s.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
That's not what you said.

And the notion that the war has solved a real problem is debatable while the cost isn't.


You are entitled to your opinion; misguided as it may be.

Last edited by Oerdin on 30-05-2003 at 03:49

realpolitic is offline realpolitic
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:45 Visit realpolitic's homepage!
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[color=red]Half of the world's war budget is spent by the US![/red] We trained Bin Laden, McVeigh, and supplied Anthrax to Saddam. We could have fed the world instead of propping up bullies that would turn on us.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:46 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Realpolitic, provide proof. I heard that argument before. Please I want to see the proof right now.

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:52
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Anti-War "Activists" vs Sick Children.


I think th Sick Children would win

oedo is offline oedo
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:54 Visit oedo's homepage!
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quote:
The biggest bite out of city coffers came from the Police Department, which reported spending $2 million to police the civil unrest, with most of the money paying for officer overtime.

The Sheriff's Department, which staffs the jails, reported $760,872 in extra costs. Public Works, which cleans the streets, said it had spent $194, 840 during the demonstrations that took place March 17 to 22.

The Municipal Railway, which operates the city's public transit service, lost an estimated $55,224 when the protesters and police blockades prevented drivers from making their regular runs. Almost $67,000 more was spent on overtime.

no idea what these people did in their demonstration, but they certainly didnīt beg for being jailed. but anyway.
is this becoming another try to undermine the freedom to assemble? the more people participate the more expensive a demonstration is. is this a reason to forbid demonstrations ingeneral, or only the larger ones?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
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Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 30-05-2003 03:55
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quote:
We trained Bin Laden, McVeigh, and supplied Anthrax to Saddam.


Um... yeeeah

WE DIDN'T TRAIN BIN LADEN! We trained the muhajadeen, who are the Northern Alliance. Bin Laden fought on their side, but was not trained by us.

McVeigh - so the US is responsible for our military men that go nuts? Doesn't seem fair

Anthrax to Saddam - have any proof?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 04:04
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quote:
Originally posted by realpolitic
[color=red]Half of the world's war budget is spent by the US![/red] We trained Bin Laden, McVeigh, and supplied Anthrax to Saddam. We could have fed the world instead of propping up bullies that would turn on us.


OBL was never trained or funded by the US. Mujaheddin groups in Afghanistan were, including Hekmatyar's, (there were 13 principle groups at various times), but OBL wasn't a recipient of US funds or training. He's never directly conducted a terrorist op anyway, he's just been a fund-raiser, guru and spokesman, all things he learned how to do in his early business career.

McVeigh was a Specialist-4 mechanized infantry grunt in the US Army, with no training in any type of explosives or special operations.

The Anthrax strains Saddam used were traced to a US strain cultured in labs since the 1950's, but that strain is available all over the world, in hundreds of research labs. There is no evidence whatsoever that the US is the party that transferred that Anthrax bacillum to Iraq. However, the US did provide raw take from KH-11 and KH-12 Intelsats and trained the Iraqis in doing BDA's (bomb damage assessments) which helped the Iraqis be more effective when they used nerve agents than they would have otherwise been. The US also diverted in excess of six billion dollars in bogus commerce and agriculture loan guarantees to help the Iraqis fight against Iran, although the Iraqis were in the right in that war.

There's lots of things to slam the US for, at least try to do so accurately, rather than parrot the knee-jerk accusations of the ignorant left.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 04:08
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Um... what MtG said .

oedo is offline oedo
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oh, and another thing. I heard there were also pro-war-demonstrations in the US where stupid people held up sings with messages like "Give War A Chance" and such rubbish. what did these assembleys cost to the cities?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 04:11
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Probably nothing.

quote:
Um... what MtG said


Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 04:15
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quote:
Originally posted by realpolitic
[color=red]Half of the world's war budget is spent by the US![/red] We trained Bin Laden, McVeigh, and supplied Anthrax to Saddam. We could have fed the world instead of propping up bullies that would turn on us.


In 2001 the amount of money spent by the nations of the world totaled about $839 billion and the US spent about 1/3 of that according to this link. The US never trained Bin Laden to do anything though the US did provide money and weapons to anti-Soviet Fighters some of whom turned out to be terrorists 15 years later. Tim McVeigh was out of the military for sometime before he went off his rocker and decided to bomb a building and stock pile spam in a cave; he clearly was a nutter and I'm not sure how the government is responsible for that/

Lastly, we have the ever popular lie about Reagon or Rumsfield or who ever the current popular villian is "giving" Saddam Anthrex. Saddam got his copy of Anthrex by having an academic claim he was using it for health research. He lied and they got it from a private university but I suppose you will claim that is the same thing.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 04:20
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Oh, and about our defense budget, as a percentage of our GDP we spend a historic low (for peacetime, in any country) on the military; something like 3%.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 30-05-2003 04:28
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quote:
Originally posted by oedo
oh, and another thing. I heard there were also pro-war-demonstrations in the US where stupid people held up sings with messages like "Give War A Chance" and such rubbish. what did these assembleys cost to the cities?


I never heard of a single one of them throwing bottles at Police, breaking windows, chaining themselves on busy road ways during rush hour, etc. In short they didn't do anything to get arrested while the anti-Bush idiots went out of their way to get arrested.

 
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