31-05-2003 09:53									#1
	Turn 63 Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Researching map making at 100% (4t to go)
- Luxury Slider at 0%
- 82 or 83 gold cash, -3 gpt

Urgent questions & tasks:
FAM: Negotiations with CDG: NAP & border combo. In process.
MoN: A couple of units need naming.

Unit movement & actions:
N01 'MerZenary' fortified in Mingapulco
N02 'Mao' to move 2 (S). After alva moves
N03 to be named 'DarkCloud' complete in Apolyton. To move 1 4 8 to prepare to move north just in case...
N04 'B' complete in Incensity. To move to game tile
W02 'BigFree' to move 7 (NW)
W03 'Alva' to move 3 (SE)
W04 'Theseus' to skip turn
W05 'BFW' to move 9 (NE)
W06 'Hagbart' fortified in Tripoli
W07 'WhiteBandit' to move 6 (E)
W08 'not_panag' fortified in Apolyton
W09 'PanzerWarrior' to move 8 (N)
W10 'X' complete in Mingapulco. To fortify

Economy:
Apolyton finished merc. Begins settler (5)
Mingapulco finished warrior. Begins warrior (2)
Banatopia completes granary. Begins warrior (3) ??? With an extra merc in Tripoli, do we want another reg warrior/sword?
Incensity finished merc. Begins merc (9). Will switch to galley
Tripoli building merc

WF:
Apolyton: 4-13-17-18 at start
Mingapulco: 2-3-10 at start
Bananatopia: 2-19 at start
Incensity: 5-14 at start
Tripoli: 2 at start

Workers
Worker1 'Dan' clearing jungle (10)
Worker2 'Monkee' building mine (2)
Worker3 'panag' begins road (2)
Worker4 'EVC' mining (4)

Diplomacy:
CDG: NAP expired. Talking about renewal - draft in works. Tech Trade in effect -- Mapmaking for Philosophy + Math. Voided if they do not get tech by 83.
GCA: NAP in effect Turn 59. Tech trade in effect Map Making and Horseback Riding for Polytheism and Mysticism
CFC: NAP in effect (to Turn 83).

Comment, please, many "plans" (especially those marked with '??') are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

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Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results.

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Last edited by notyoueither on 31-05-2003 at 09:58

	31-05-2003 13:53									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Could you post the exact amounts and experiece of our units here? With our new units coming up, I expect to be 'average' to CDG and GCA again next turn.

	31-05-2003 14:50									#3
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As of 1474 BC (turn 62) we have:

6 Regular Warriors
1 Veteran Warrior
1 Elite Warior
2 Regular NM's

On the next turn we will add in to our inventory:

1 Veteran Warrior
2 Regular NM's

	31-05-2003 15:03									#4
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BFM, I took a look at your strength number's for CDG and this is what I propose that they have:

4 Regular Warrior's
3 Regular Spearmen
3 Regular Immortals
1 Veteran Immortal

	31-05-2003 23:10									#5
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With that extra Merc in Tripoli, I'll be losing 1 Reg Warrior to it, so Yes, Keep Banana the same, i.e. Warrior.

MoI E_T

	31-05-2003 23:14									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

BFM, look at the MoI thread for the expected builds. Just keep an Eye our for any changes when A Jungle is cleared (like there are changes with Bananatopia #8 having a bonus sheild - soon to be reposted).

MoI E_T

	01-06-2003 01:01									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

hi ,

just a Q ; since our money is not growing , .....

anyy plans on getting some instead of loosing it

have a nice day

	02-06-2003 11:32									#8
	Something to thing about Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

1. Do we have elite warriors ? We may want to consider upgrading them into Swordmen first instead of upgrading the newly-built veteran warrior at Mingapulco.

2. We had been sending our NMs to fight barbarian to gain promotion. Are we planning to send our upgraded Swordmen too to fight against barbarian to become elite Swordmen ? Elites will enhance our chances against CDG and getting a leader.

3. Have we identified which Swordmen/warrior/NM we are going to bring to the batterfield against CDG ? This may be a bit early, but will allow us to properly plan their individual training (ie fight barbarian) and movement plan for these units ?

4. How about building a road to the North and/or East so that our barbarian fighters can retreat back to defend our homeland/attack CDG faster ?

	02-06-2003 11:49									#9
	Re: Something to thing about Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by rush 1. Do we have elite warriors ? We may want to consider upgrading them into Swordmen first instead of upgrading the newly-built veteran warrior at Mingapulco.

There is no benefit from upgrading Elites over upgrading veterans, as an upgraded Elite drops down to Veteran status. The Elites we have (even Warriors) will mix with our main forces in the hope of attacking a badly wounded unit, so we can have a chance of getting a GL from an Elite battle. The odds are slim, yes, but more than zero.

quote: 2. We had been sending our NMs to fight barbarian to gain promotion. Are we planning to send our upgraded Swordmen too to fight against barbarian to become elite Swordmen ? Elites will enhance our chances against CDG and getting a leader.

A good idea, but it is one that will depend on how much time we think we can afford between getting these Swords and having to group them for the attack. Where possible, of course we should do this.

quote: 3. Have we identified which Swordmen/warrior/NM we are going to bring to the batterfield against CDG ? This may be a bit early, but will allow us to properly plan their individual training (ie fight barbarian) and movement plan for these units ?

I would think we don't need to do this, but instead we should just aim to have as many "train" with Barbs as possible. The Vet/Elite units would be the ones that go to fight preferentially over Regs. Earlier built units would have a greater chance of reaching Elite status vs Barba than later built units, so these would be more likely to be in the battles. Not many will reach Elite status anyway, as there won't be all THAT many Barbs for practice on.

quote: 4. How about building a road to the North and/or East so that our barbarian fighters can retreat back to defend our homeland/attack CDG faster ?

Also a good idea worth looking at, if we can afford the worker turns. I think in his analyses E_T professed an uncertainty to what all the Workers would be doing, so we may be able to swing this. For the moment it's our economic development, but when we have a few more Workers we should look to do this wherever we can.

	02-06-2003 12:11									#10
	Re: Re: Something to thing about Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt There is no benefit from upgrading Elites over upgrading veterans, as an upgraded Elite drops down to Veteran status. The Elites we have (even Warriors) will mix with our main forces in the hope of attacking a badly wounded unit, so we can have a chance of getting a GL from an Elite battle. The odds are slim, yes, but more than zero.

I read somewhere in the Poly Strategy forum that while upgrading the Elite units, the status drops to Veteran, but the fighting experience remains. So, the chances of subsequent promotion to Elite is higher. Not 100% sure though.

But you are right. We can use our Elite Warrior to fight against their injured Archers or Warriors.

	02-06-2003 12:34									#11
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Intriguing.....

It may be the case that we get to where we realise Elite Warriors won't do anything, and upgrade them anyway.

With Iron in those hills just north of their capital, I don't expect them to run out of Immortals for some time after the war starts, either....

	02-06-2003 19:12									#12
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EDIT: handled, hopefully

	04-06-2003 03:23									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Trip W10 '?' fortify in Mingapulco. Ready for upgrade.

We should move any Warrior Units (that we are going to upgrade) to within 2 tiles of Mingapulco, incase CDG (or someone else) desides to take a peak at what is there. Always keep them guessing.....

MoI E_T

	04-06-2003 09:06									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That's not a bad idea ET, maybe a little overly cautious, but it doesn't cost us anything at all in case they do investigate, so we should do it if it doesn't prevent us from protecting any other cities. Sound good to you Trip?

	04-06-2003 10:06									#16
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As long as there's no happiness problems.

	04-06-2003 10:27									#17
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Cool, thanks Trip.

Here's the deal with the current save, it has been delayed by one or two teams. Times are PST.

	04-06-2003 11:58									#18
	Tired of ads?

I don't know what CDG is up to. It seems there is some sentiment against the weekend delays caused by Firaxis a couple of times. Why everyone has ignored the incompetence of Webring in handeling email, but some are angry with Soren is a bit of a mystery to me.

	05-06-2003 05:16									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Status:

Our military is average vs all. Added 2 regular mercs and 1 vet warrior this turn.

Harappan warrior 2 from Mao.

CDG road on Gold Hill is complete.

CDG city, Shaharazade, appears on the choke point. Barry to warrior is 2 of BigFurryWarrior.

Etruscan warrior has emerged from the camp in the North (8 7 from PanzerWarrior).

	05-06-2003 06:35									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

Actions:
N01 'MerZenary' fortified in Mingapulco
N02 'Mao' attacks Harappan warrior at 2 (S). Wins, no damage. Harrapan camp at 2
N03 named 'DarkCloud' complete in Apolyton. Moves to game tile and fortifies
N04 'A' complete in Incensity. Moves 7 (NW) to support PanzerWarrior
W02 'BigFree' moves 7 (NW)
W04 'Theseus' skips turn
W05 'BFW' moves 8 (N)
W06 'Hagbart' fortified in Tripoli
W07 'WhiteBandit' moves 9 (NE). There is a gap between he and Theseus, but if the Goats settler is headed to the hill he just moved to, this will delay them 1 turn (the settler should have crossed the river and be adjacent to Gold Hill on CDGs last turn). If they are going for the jungle tile 7 of GoldHill, no diff
W08 'not_panag' fortified in Apolyton
W09 'PanzerWarrior' to move 8 (N)
W10 'X' complete in Mingapulco. Moves 9 9 and fortifies.
W03 'Alva' moves 6 (E). Of course there's nothing there, just making sure

Economy:
Apolyton begins settler (5)
Mingapulco begins warrior (2)
Banatopia begins warrior (3)
Incensity begins merc (9). Will switch to galley
Tripoli building merc

WF:
Apolyton: 4-13-17-18 at start
Mingapulco: 2-3-10 at start
Bananatopia: 2-19 at start
Incensity: 5-14 at start
Tripoli: 2 at start

Workers:
Worker1 'Dan' clearing jungle (10)
Worker2 'Monkee' building mine (2)
Worker3 'panag' begins road (2)
Worker4 'EVC' mining (4)

	05-06-2003 07:10									#22
	Tired of ads?

Waaaaaiit a minute- someone count up CDG's land area vs ours? We're in 8th, which means they have more... ::Stares at it:: Do they have a city somewhere we don't see?

	05-06-2003 07:15									#23
	Got spare money?

We have 54 tiles to their 62. No mystery.

	05-06-2003 08:24									#24
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It's the tight packed cities that throw you off. We are still 3rd in manufacturing (shields) and 4th in Commerce produced. CDG is likey 7-8 in both of these catagories.

	05-06-2003 09:24									#25
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Would it at all be possible for someone to test for optimisation of all the labourer allocations to the maximum:

1. Gold
2. (Unwasted) Shields
3. Food
4. Total gold, shields and food

This would just be to determine whether we were really close to any other civ in the Gold (GNP), Production(Mfg Goods), food (Family size) and Productivity stakes. Looking to check for any differences in our Demographic rankings would tell us this, or to see how close our opponents were. We could certainly see how far behind others are by REDUCING our values for gold etc.

This could just be useful to show where the other civs are in relation to us in terms of real numbers.

	05-06-2003 11:18									#26
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I'm not sure if the demographics screen would change if you move around the WF durin a turn, I think it takes the numbers form the end of the previous turn or the begining of the curret turn, we could test this out to see if it does. Can you do this BFM?

	05-06-2003 11:41									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

That should be an Area X function.

E_T

	05-06-2003 11:57									#28
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It moves during the turn as you adjust.

	05-06-2003 17:50									#29
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Interesting idea! I would do it, however, I'm not available until Monday (RL issues...).

If someone else wants to have a go: the formulas that go with the F11 screen are to be found in the Area X thread.

	05-06-2003 19:28									#30
	Re: Re: Re: Something to thing about Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by rush I read somewhere in the Poly Strategy forum that while upgrading the Elite units, the status drops to Veteran, but the fighting experience remains. So, the chances of subsequent promotion to Elite is higher. Not 100% sure though.

Nope.

BUT, you still make a good overall point re training... more important to have elite Swords than elite NMs, as there is a higher chance of GL generation on offense.