02-06-2003 09:55									#1
	Did Franklin Roosevelt's policies prolong the great depression? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Or did they improve things? I'm not here saying he hurt the country. I don't know enough about economics to really judge. So that is why I'm asking this question. I'd like to know because some experts are predicting a 1 in 5 chance we could be heading for another depression, and I'd like to know which policies are best for getting out of a depression.

	02-06-2003 09:57									#2
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Another depression? Highly unlikely. The conditions just don't exist.

I am not knowledgeable enough on FDR's policies.

	02-06-2003 09:59									#3
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Mostly economics tend to themselves. Some presidents just have good or bad fortune to live during certain economic times.

What was important for Roosevelt is that he LOOKED like he was trying to do something about it. Kind of like how Bush is trying to do something but not really getting anywhere doing it.

	02-06-2003 10:05									#4
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No, his policies were far short of what was needed obviously, but he did hold the nation together during the crisis.

	02-06-2003 10:13									#5
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His policies helped alleviate the human toll, but I have my doubts about whether his policies made much economic impact overall.

	02-06-2003 10:15									#6
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I don't look at FDR for his "achievements" during the 30s.. I don't think they were that great. I mostly recognize him for his war leadership.

	02-06-2003 10:31									#7
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a big policy of his was to put people to work by having them work for the goverment. I'm curious how the goverment could afford to pay people to work. How high were the taxes? Were the rich taxed a very high amount?

There was a fascist movement during his early presidency. There was even talk of overthrowing the goverment.

	02-06-2003 10:36									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident a big policy of his was to put people to work by having them work for the goverment. I'm curious how the goverment could afford to pay people to work. How high were the taxes? Were the rich taxed a very high amount?

Yes, he raised taxes, but there were deficits too. The goverment borrows money to fund deficits. He should have spent even more money on his programs-about what was spent on the war build up.

	02-06-2003 11:43									#9
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His programs were certainly unconstitutional, and were regularly struck down until he threatened to "pack the Court". At this point, the Justices began to rule his way in order to at least somewhat protect the integrity of the Court.

	02-06-2003 12:33									#10
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Yes, his policies prolonged the Depression. Diverting resources from productive endeavors doesn't help an economy. Just look at Japan's attempts to pull out of it's decade long slump.

	02-06-2003 12:38									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Yes, his policies prolonged the Depression. Diverting resources from productive endeavors doesn't help an economy. Just look at Japan's attempts to pull out of it's decade long slump.

Lack of resources was not a problem.

	02-06-2003 13:09									#12
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Yes I'm also looking at Japan's economy. This is why I feel we have a decent chance of ourselves hitting a depression. So I'm trying to look at what the U.S. did in the 30's and what Japan is doing now. Japan's economy is a bit different from the U.S.'s though. I think Japan's depression more closely resembles the U.s. in the 30's than the U.S. now. The main difference is the manufacturing aspect of the Japanese economy is much higher than in the U.S. at least with regards to per capita.

	02-06-2003 13:46									#13
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Not putting up tarriffs would have ended the depression much sooner

	02-06-2003 15:51									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Yes I'm also looking at Japan's economy. This is why I feel we have a decent chance of ourselves hitting a depression. So I'm trying to look at what the U.S. did in the 30's and what Japan is doing now. Japan's economy is a bit different from the U.S.'s though. I think Japan's depression more closely resembles the U.s. in the 30's than the U.S. now. The main difference is the manufacturing aspect of the Japanese economy is much higher than in the U.S. at least with regards to per capita.

In what way does the Japanese economy now resemble the US economy in the 30s? Are the unemployment rates similar? Is there extensive excess capacity in Japan as there was in the US. Did the US government bail out banks like the Japanese government? Did the US government do as much deficit spending as the Japanese have?

As for your question, which of FDR's policies do you think hurt the US economy during the 30s?

	02-06-2003 16:42									#15
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It depends on your economic viewpoint - Keynesians would say that FDR did the right thing and singlehandedly pulled the country out of the Depression, monetarists would say that FDR did more harm than good...

I'm in the middle ground, myself. I think that FDR's tax-and-spend job-creation initiatives did indeed help alleviate the Depression by increasing the number of incomes earned and thus the flow of income, but using similar tax-and-spend policies during a period of economic prosperity would be inadvisable - it would push the economy into an unsustainable boom that burns quickly, but burns out fast.

	02-06-2003 17:16									#16
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You gonna sort it all out if it happens then diss??

From my studies, and they were somewhat brief it seems like Roosevelt reversed the spiral effect which was an important thing becuase America was plummeting at the time he took over.

	02-06-2003 21:47									#17
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Look at Hitlers strategy for getting out of a depression. That's how it's done. Except for the thing about trying to take over the world that is.

Japan's not really in a depression like that. They are in more of a very long recession, but you could say that a long recession is a depression. It's just not as bad yet, and the Japanese have handled it much better than the US did back then.

I don't think you can say there is a 20% chance of a depression. You just can't measure those things.

	02-06-2003 21:52									#18
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Kidicious, so you think the militarization of the society is the proper way to go? Seig heil.

Japan is just stuck in an awful spirial of deflation. Nothing like the great depression.. but bad enough.

	02-06-2003 22:07									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Kidicious, so you think the militarization of the society is the proper way to go? Seig heil.

First they spent a bunch of money on public works. That's what got the economy moving, but military build up works too.

	02-06-2003 22:34									#20
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Fez:

Hitler did do a good job domestically at alleviating the depression in Germany. Everybody calls him a magnetic personality who convinced people and leave it at that to explain his public support, but they forget that Hitler helped straighten out the economy. Are you going to oppose someone who helps you get a job?

	02-06-2003 22:38									#21
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Yes.. but the man was still evil... sure he got it on the right track.. but was evil.

	03-06-2003 03:56									#22
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Fez dissing Hitler? Wow.

	03-06-2003 04:18									#23
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quote: Originally posted by DanS His policies helped alleviate the human toll, but I have my doubts about whether his policies made much economic impact overall.

I agree with this statement.

	03-06-2003 05:02									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Yes, his policies prolonged the Depression. Diverting resources from productive endeavors doesn't help an economy. Just look at Japan's attempts to pull out of it's decade long slump.

Of course! Productive activities like the construction of more Hoover-towns! When you have massive unemployment like that, nobody has money to buy things - which means that productive endevors in the private sector aren't making money.

The reason FDR failed to solve the Great Depression is that he didn't go far enough. Luckily, you had Huey P. Long on the left pushing FDR to stay the course. Had Senator Long not been assassinated, he likely would have been president and the country would have been much better off.

	03-06-2003 05:09									#25
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger Not putting up tarriffs would have ended the depression much sooner

Same old neoliberal claptrap - and from a Eurosceptic no less!

Sure, lower tarriffs, allowing an influx of cheaper foreign goods at a time when you have over 20% unemployment. Consumers with jobs, rightly fearing for their future in those times buy up the cheaper foreign goods. This exaserbates the industrial collapse at home, bringing further unemployment. Nice shootin' Tex! Go ask a Peruvian how lowering tarriffs in the mid '90s perked their economy right up.

Same old protestant ethic and the invisible hand of the marketplace. The marketpalce isn't God, and there is no invisible hand that assures optimal results. The economy is just as open to engineering and control as any other machine.

	03-06-2003 05:11									#26
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar The reason FDR failed to solve the Great Depression is that he didn't go far enough. Luckily, you had Huey P. Long on the left pushing FDR to stay the course. Had Senator Long not been assassinated, he likely would have been president and the country would have been much better off.

Yeah, too bad. He would have been great.

	03-06-2003 05:11									#27
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quote: Had Senator Long not been assassinated, he likely would have been president and the country would have been much better off.

Yes... so much better. 30 years of Long (if wasn't assasinated sooner) with a welfare state that Sweden hasn't seen yet, destroying our economy and letting the USSR win the Cold War. Perfect .

Then again, Congress probably wouldn't have put up with it and would let him get anyting done.. unless Huey decided a coup and dictatorship would be nice... which is not too far off from what he did in Louisiana when he was governor.

	03-06-2003 05:26									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Had Senator Long not been assassinated, he likely would have been president and the country would have been much better off. Yes... so much better. 30 years of Long (if wasn't assasinated sooner) with a welfare state that Sweden hasn't seen yet, destroying our economy and letting the USSR win the Cold War. Perfect . Then again, Congress probably wouldn't have put up with it and would let him get anyting done.. unless Huey decided a coup and dictatorship would be nice... which is not too far off from what he did in Louisiana when he was governor.

That is just great... there was a senator like this? Some socialist in the US that would of never got elected anyways to the office of presidency anyways.

And take a look at Templar's avatar? Good thing the evil empire is gone. Good riddance.

	03-06-2003 05:27									#29
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The Federal Reserve tightening interest rates by 200 basis points (2 percentage points) in the middle of the depression didn't help a whole lot.

	03-06-2003 05:30									#30
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Also Templar, "Ike" Eisenhower was far more popular than any other politican during the 50s.. so it is unlikely your prediction would of happened if Long wasn't assassinated.