02-06-2003 22:09									#1
	Turn 108, 410 BC Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I got the save and went ahead and did the Inchon and Inchoff landings. I also bombarded Vox's eastern immortals, hitting with three out of seven cats.

Vox cut their road 9 from Inchon (3-3 from Elipolis), which means any forces in Elipolis are going to be delayed trying to counterattack. At the very least, our pikes will have a fortification bonus going for them by the time Vox can counterattack in any significant strength. Inchoff is in greater immediate danger; there's a regular immortal and a vet immortal right next to it.

Vox now has at least three cats, two shown in the screenshot at D8 and one under the Spear at Inchon 3. At Inchon 7, Vox has a vet spear and a vet warrior.

I'll play the rest of the turn this evening (U.S. time), but I thought everyone would like to know.

	02-06-2003 22:35									#2
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quote: I got the save and went ahead and did the Inchon and Inchoff landings. I also bombarded Vox's eastern immortals, hitting with three out of seven cats.

I can't believe it's actually underway! Woohoo! I'm so psyched that both landing zones were open! Vox is in for a shock.

Thanks for the update, Nathan.

-Arrian

	02-06-2003 22:37									#3
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quote: Vox cut their road 9 from Inchon (3-3 from Elipolis),

Woo-hoo, finaly I'm back in
-
Nathan, before you leave, could send the save?

	02-06-2003 22:59									#4
	Re: Turn 108, 410 BC Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I've waited for this moment for so long...

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay At Inchon 7, Vox has a vet spear and a vet warrior.

Alva: I can send it. Address?

Btw, we have to start discussing whether we want to rush o-turn walls in Inchoff.
So far it looks to me like that won't be necessary, so we can save 80+ gold and do a 1-turn rush.

Cat success in the east: 3 hits is just a bit below average. It's not dazzling success, but it'll give Vox something to think about.

	02-06-2003 23:00									#5
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Save forwarded. Alva, was finding out where the road was cut the thing that forced the vow of silence on you?

	02-06-2003 23:00									#6
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Anybody got a screenie of the latest action? Been away doing CB stuffs, but still lurking....

-=Vel=-

	02-06-2003 23:03									#7
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Vel: good to have you back!
You can find the screens in the softhome box.

	02-06-2003 23:06									#8
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Vox is probably preparing for a siege against D'ville- Cats could work for them like they worked for us. I bet that's what they are thinking right now. They could be thinking, OTOH, that it's time to put some pressure of their own, but I hardly believe that's what they are planning for with three cats and no mountain roads for them.

	02-06-2003 23:12									#9
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quote: Save forwarded. Alva, was finding out where the road was cut the thing that forced the vow of silence on you?

Yep, I though it was quite important (or could have been)

	02-06-2003 23:25									#10
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Vox was clearly preparing to defend Dissidentville.

Those cats could be a PitA, but I favor simply bypassing Dissidentville for the time being and attacking Vox's core - where their cats will be of no use. We can use our galleys to ferry troops northward. Meanwhile, our cats continue to pound the eastern immortals, and we hold a few units in reserve to deal with any attempted breakout/advance from Dissidentville.

Good to have you back, Alva Heya, Vel! Things are lookin' up, eh?

-Arrian

	02-06-2003 23:59									#11
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Does anyone know if we can 'invade' their unprotected cats? Never tried it, but if we can land a pike on top of their cats, thus capturing them, it would be great. I doubt it, but as said, I never tested this...

Other than that: a 0-turn walls in Inchon seems worth it, Inchoff should be seen as a diversion, and not something we want to spend ridiculous money on. We're doing fine (certainly after seeing ND has a total of 159 gold) moneywise, but we can't be foolish about our reserves.

Further: I wouldn't mind D-ville for the moment, we should instead focus on staffing Inchon, and using that force to attack their core. They won't have iron down there, so it should be relatively easy to take (certainly compared to D-ville). After we start damaging their core (and they will have more cats there, I'm sure), I wouldn't be surprised if they give up, and start doing dumb things because they know they've lost. With 1 city left, no team will want to stay in the game.

I'm mighty curious how Vox reacts to this internally, it's kind of obvious they weren't expecting this. Otherwise, they would have kept more troops within direct striking range of Inchon, and would have blocked Inchoff.

BTW, perfect timing on Inchon-off/SS expansion Certainly will give them something to think about

Some speculation (more things to do, so still no Internet time today): Vox will try to recuperate part of their SS force by moving it out the way, prolly cursing that they didn't do it last time. But, with the barrage they got from our cats last time, they will not simply sit by, and wait for us to finally kill their force when it's down to 1 hp. The only exception is if they gamble, and start moving troops closer to Monsoon, hoping to spread our offensive forces.

Further, seeing 7 cats on SS6 let's them think there aren't many cats in reach to defend Monsoon (which is correct, BTW), so if they want to reach honor in this fight by attacking one of our cities (they haven't fired a single shot at any of our cities yet, which must be frustrating), they will do it next turn. They might try to take out the spears for Inchoff, which is another possible route for them, but they have to realize that Inchon is untouchable once a city is built. And right now, there aren't enough troops in the neighbourhood to attack us there. (with one possible exception, which I doubt it: they could have most their troops at Inchon 336)

Really, this is great stuff, certainly has put the fun back in war. I'm surprised both landings happened according to our best plans, I thought at least one site would have been blocked, and needed changing our plans mid turn.

BTW, instead of using our cats on D-ville, I would rather ship them over to Inchon, once they become available. D-ville is hard to take, and I would prefer waiting until we have dealt with both their core, and the SS stack. It might be predictable, but I doubt Vox is going to sit by with their D-ville defenders when we're marching thru their core.

Another BTW (today is a good BTW day ): can we have a galley chain going? we have enough galleys to make a straight 2-units per turn chain from inside Monsoon to Inhon, while making sure next turn our galleys are in the same position to do it again. The only advantage I see is that will mean none of our units are in transit, and can be offensively used the moment they arrive at Monsoon, so we don't lose units there. But, I'm not sure if that's enough of an advantage to bother... plus we would limit the amount of units that can be transferred in one turn...

DeepO

	03-06-2003 00:21									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't think we need to rush the walls in Inchon at full price. I think we can hold off 1 turn and pay 76 gold for them.

Good post, BTW, DeepO. We cannot steal their cats via landing units on them. They, like normal combat units, prevent non-amphibious units from landing.

-Arrian

	03-06-2003 00:29									#13
	Re: Turn 108, 410 BC Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Vox cut their road 9 from Inchon (3-3 from Elipolis), which means any forces in Elipolis are going to be delayed trying to counterattack.

I think that this is the most beautiful part about this turn. Don't you agree?

Regarding Vox's cats: actually, they could pose a problem... they could knock down our walls. When a cat bombards a walled town, the bombardments attack the walls first (odds are calculated according to the bombardment defense rate of the walls improvement, which I believe is 4, or rather 6, thanks to the hill bonus). So our walls might absorb two cat hits or three, but they can go down, and then we'd have spent 160 gold on absorbing two or three cat shots.
The comforting part is that Vox can either wait until they can assemble a force of a few pikes to defend their cats before they approach Inchon (they may have some already en route from the north so it actually might not take a while), or send the cats defended by mostly immortals and exposed to a counter-attack.
My hope is that they won't be expecting MedInfs (they'll never see them since they're on the galley that hasn't unloaded yet, and by the time we unload, Inchon will be set up and the number and types of troops inside the city will be unknown to them) and so they'd station their cats outside the city, attack, and with some luck our MedInfs will be able to capture their cats.
Man, that would be awesome! 3 free cats... :drool:

	03-06-2003 00:43									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I don't think we need to rush the walls in Inchon at full price. I think we can hold off 1 turn and pay 76 gold for them.

I disagree. It's too much of a gamble.

Btw, there's a vet MedInf in SandStorm-1. I suggest that we move it into Arashi so it could assist if Vox tries to move onto Monsoon next turn.

	03-06-2003 00:53									#15
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OneToRule.

Hopefully, soon our password shall become reality! *ROARING THUNDER* MWHAHAHAHA!!

	03-06-2003 01:27									#16
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well, my last post was a little disorganised, and it seemed I forget loads of half sentences... oh well...

As to cats from Vox: offensively, they don't pose much of a threat, certainly not once we get cats there for ourselves (which is why I think we need a couple of them soon, to answer a discussion of a few days ago I spotted about cats or medinfs in Tempest). Offensively, they can only advance into our territory one turn, and fire the next. This will give us the opportunity to attack them, so unless they'll come with lots of pike support (which is still somewhat of a risk before we get adequate offensive forces in Inchon), they won't do it.

Defensively, it's another picture, Vox wil certainly have cats, and will build more of them if their iron is disconnected permanently, to defend their core. With a couple of pikes, we are confined to slowmover attacks, and they know it (or should realize it anyway). So, the best possible defense against slowmovers is pikes and cats, we've demonstrated that to them quite painfully the past few turns.

Seeing as we had to cross the spines, attack a hill for Elipolis, or attack into mountains for their colony, they will anticipate mostly med infs, pikes, and cats. Which is why we should considerate to keep them off their feet, and go with a mostly horseman / WC force... might be more costly in terms of loss ratio, but we can certainly overwhelm them in numbers with cheap units, and they won't have anti-horse defenses in place. Might be worth considering for the immediate future...

DeepO

	03-06-2003 01:30									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This is a good turn and for certain will give Vox somewhat to think and to report their puppet masters. As for rushing walls in Inchon, we're going to land five pikes there, right? There's nothing Vox can have at most 6 tiles away (with roads), that can finish off five veteran pikes on a hill. No need to waste money. Wait a turn and then rush for half price.

	03-06-2003 02:06									#18
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First time I've actually looked at the save. My god you guys are good, really impressive core setup, 30 shield cities in 400bc and the cities using flood plains and mountains nice.

I especially like the trapped units to the north of tempest they might aswell disband them to stop us getting upgrades. We have alot of units there which will soon be freed up soon.

I never realized how small Vox's core was. They really don't have much chance at all.

	03-06-2003 02:27									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think that you're looking at an old save...
We already killed the units around Arashi/Tempest (we got no upgrades though ). Now we're about to kill the units in the east near Sandstorm.
OPD, what do you think of Inchon? (the landing plan that was carried out this turn)

	03-06-2003 03:27									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Can someone email me me a save after the landing, or screenshots please? I would like to see the action first-hand.

TripGoT@hotmail.com

	03-06-2003 03:27									#21
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I'm all for Vox trying to pull something near Monsoon- that would truly be combined warfare at its best:

With Pike protected stack the invading force is one to be reckoned with. If we have one or two, we'll use them to soften the Pikes- We'll crack the turtle's shell with Med Infs. on open grounds it won't be that hard, especially not with our superior numbers. This leaves the soft Immortals ripe for the taking- With WC's or Med Infs we could spare. That should be all over in one turn.

About rushing the walls- we should wait and see what Vox sends to the fray next turn, and make our decision accordingly.

	03-06-2003 03:37									#22
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quote: Can someone email me me a save after the landing, or screenshots please? I would like to see the action first-hand.

Good to see you're here with us

Suddenly everyone pop up to see the fireworks.

I can't blame you, it'll surely (not) gonna be pretty.

	03-06-2003 05:07									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'll be home to play the rest of the turn in a few minutes, not that I remember there being a whole lot to deal with.

By the way, I forgot to switch Tempest from a WC to a cat in the production phase, so we have an extra WC to use or upgrade as the fates dictate. I have it switched to a cat for next turn, assuming that's what we want.

	03-06-2003 05:35									#24
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Looking at Vox's options in the Hurricane area, I can see three. (1) Hurl their immortals at our pikes, probably the pikes north of them, in the hope of doing some damage before they go. (2) Try to get a galley or galleys down to pick up at least some of the troops. (3) Leave the troops where they are and hope they can buy a little time before they die.

	03-06-2003 05:43									#25
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I'm thinking of having our workers currently at SS8 move 9 and start roading up near the east coast. That will be useful for our cities in that direction eventually, and could help if we do decide we want to bring troops up from the east to attack Dissidentville. Such a road could also get troops farther north for pick-up by our eastern galleys more quickly. Any objections?

	03-06-2003 05:52									#26
	Got spare money?

I just chopped Arashi 4; I hope no one minds. Unfortunately, the grassland lurking beneath has no shield. I used momentary switches to wonder builds to get the chop to go to either Monsoon or Whirlwind, and it ended up going to Whirlwind. If it's okay with the team, I'll leverage that to time yet another galley to complete in three turns. (Yes, I want a lot of troops up north quickly. )

Do we want to switch EotS and Hurricane to horsemen for a little while since Vox doesn't seem intent on eating into our pike supply as much as it looked like they might?

	03-06-2003 06:57									#27
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I just noticed that RP moved their palace. Good guess! Their capital is now Pamplona, 4-4-4-4 from New Madrid.

	03-06-2003 07:10									#28
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Turn and closing screenshots sent.

Trip, I added you to my screenshot mailing list. If you don't want to be on it long-term, let me know and I'll take you back off. But in the meantime, this gives you a shot of the end of the turn after the Inchon and Inchoff landings.

	03-06-2003 07:56									#29
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That's fine. Are they JPEGs or GIFs? Hopefully not BMPs.

My inbox often has a lot of stuff in it (6 active PBEM games in addition to what you might be sending me) so it anything bounces back, it returns with love.

	03-06-2003 11:42									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Trip That's fine. Are they JPEGs or GIFs? Hopefully not BMPs. My inbox often has a lot of stuff in it (6 active PBEM games in addition to what you might be sending me) so it anything bounces back, it returns with love.

They're JPEGs, but Nathan sends out 5 or 6 screenies every turn (a couple of maps, power and score graphs, stuff like that) so the size of the e-mail is a fairly big. The one from this turn was just over 1MB. I don't use my hotmail account for anything else anymore, so I don't mind if it gets maxes out occasionally, but if you're relying on it for PBEM turns it might cause a problem or two. Anyway, just a warning.