03-06-2003 15:18									#1
	Could Hoth's 4th panzer have accomplished its mission had it not been diverted? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well?

	03-06-2003 15:33									#2
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No chance

	03-06-2003 16:45									#3
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What?

	03-06-2003 16:54									#4
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Who?

	03-06-2003 16:56									#5
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It's a trick question. There weren't any panzers on Hoth, just AT-ATs, AT-STs and Snowspeeders.

	03-06-2003 16:59									#6
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Why?

	03-06-2003 17:02									#7
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I think the Imperial weapons procurement divisions thought that walkers looked cooler, of course if they'd had panzers they wouldn't have been vulnerable to small rebel fighters.

Again.

Why didn't the designers ever consider small rebel fighters?

	03-06-2003 17:05									#8
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I do think the rebels performance on Hoth was rubbish, they should have possessed at leat the odd weapon capable of taking out an AT-AT, they had no mobile armour and there trenches wern't big enough to stop the walkers

	03-06-2003 17:19									#9
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They never intended to fight a stand up battle, just hold them off long enough to evacuate. They managed that so it was a success.

	03-06-2003 17:22									#10
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But they didn't really hold them, there was no point where the empires forces had to pause or regroup or even change direction. They walked through.

And having your primary offensive weapon(speeder) incapable of penetrating the armour of the AT-ATs is a really big mistake. Someone high up needs to be sacked.

	03-06-2003 17:51									#11
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You seem to be confusing the rebel forces with a real army. They are a hit and run guerrilla force, they aren't supposed to be getting involved in pitched battles with heavy armour.

At least they had Mr Bronson as a mole on board the Imperial fleet to come out of hyperspace early and give them warning.

	03-06-2003 17:51									#12
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What are you exactly talking about?
Taking Stalingrad without a fight before the russians start defending it?
If it's that that you mean, I don't know enough about it.
I just found this quote from von Kleist:

quote: The 4th Panzer Army was advancing on my left. It could have taken Stalingrad without a fight, at the end of July, but was diverted to the south to help me crossing the Don. I did not needs it's aid, and merely congested the roads I was using. When it turned north again, a fortnight later, the Russians had gathered just sufficient forces at Stalingrad to check it.

	03-06-2003 17:54									#13
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You have to remember that most of the rebel forces were not only under-trained but in fact pretty cowardly. A lot of them were criminals, drug addicts, and other misfits who had fled the Empire's reach. They were clawing over each other to get out of there at the first sight of Imperial forces.

	03-06-2003 17:57									#14
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I thought it was a proper civil war, The rebel fleet in episode 6 is pretty impressive.

	03-06-2003 17:58									#15
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH You seem to be confusing the rebel forces with a real army. They are a hit and run guerrilla force, they aren't supposed to be getting involved in pitched battles with heavy armour. At least they had Mr Bronson as a mole on board the Imperial fleet to come out of hyperspace early and give them warning.

I bet it was Gripper Stebsons fault

	03-06-2003 18:54									#16
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quote: The rebel fleet in episode 6 is pretty impressive

All show and no go. Most of the best weaponry had been sold off by corrupted rebel "officials" or was inoperable due to incompetence or lack of spare parts. The only reason the rebels performed as well as they did was that the Empire had more pressing business elsewhere.

	03-06-2003 18:56									#17
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye quote: The rebel fleet in episode 6 is pretty impressive All show and no go. Most of the best weaponry had been sold off by corrupted rebel "officials" or was inoperable due to incompetence or lack of spare parts. The only reason the rebels performed as well as they did was that the Empire had more pressing business elsewhere.

I bet you were gutted when vader betrayed his emporer

	03-06-2003 18:56									#18
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger I thought it was a proper civil war, The rebel fleet in episode 6 is pretty impressive.

Still totally outnumbered by the imperials though, they were getting slaughtered when they took the Imperial fleet on it was only the freakish loss of the Executor and the Imperial forces loss of their mind link to the Emperor that turned allowed the Rebels to triumph.

	03-06-2003 18:58									#19
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I never understood this, if you can build a ship 3/4 the size( my guess) of a star destroyer why not just build 1 as big and powerful. Sometime the rebles were just stupid

	03-06-2003 18:58									#20
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye You have to remember that most of the rebel forces were not only under-trained but in fact pretty cowardly. A lot of them were criminals, drug addicts, and other misfits who had fled the Empire's reach. They were clawing over each other to get out of there at the first sight of Imperial forces.

I love the impersenation of the Iraqi Information Minister.

	03-06-2003 18:59									#21
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They will be slaughterd at the Gates of Coruscant

	03-06-2003 18:59									#22
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger I never understood this, if you can build a ship 3/4 the size( my guess) of a star destroyer why not just build 1 as big and powerful.

Lack of resources.

	03-06-2003 19:19									#23
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Yeah, it's like saying if you can afford a 20 year old citroen C5 why can't you afford a Maclaren F1?

Why has the UK got a couple of crappy little harrier carriers and the US got loads of big nuclear Nimitz carriers?

	03-06-2003 19:26									#24
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Because we aren't fighting the US, if you are going up aginanst an enemy in a conventional war then you build the right stuff. The rebels aren't like those stupid little anti government groups in the US, they are big. They managed to build fighters better than the empire's.

Once you have decided to build a blood huge ship it does not costs that much more to build a gigantic one.

The rebels leadership is lacking managerial expertise.

	03-06-2003 19:32									#25
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger Because we aren't fighting the US, if you are going up aginanst an enemy in a conventional war then you build the right stuff.

They weren't fighting a conventional war with the Empire. They were playing to thier strengths on going the route of guerrilla warfare due to thier relative weaknesses wrt Empire. The only reason you saw them out in force in Episode 6 is because they in a do or die situation due to the construction of the Death Star.

	03-06-2003 19:35									#26
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Any army that relies on a geeky weirdo, a big teddy bear and a crook to win their war has severe organisational defficiencies.

	03-06-2003 19:37									#27
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Hey, that's Blair's war cabinet you are talking about.

	03-06-2003 19:57									#28
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If not for Admiral Ozzel's blundering, Hoth could have been the rebels tomb.

	03-06-2003 19:59									#29
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quote: I love the impersenation of the Iraqi Information Minister.

The rebels are sick in the mind, committing suicide at the gates of the Empire. They are nowhere near Hoth.

	03-06-2003 20:12									#30
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider If not for Admiral Ozzel's blundering, Hoth could have been the rebels tomb.

According to the official short story book I read, deliberate act of treason, not blundering.