05-06-2003 07:51									#91
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Thank you for sailing GSSS... glass of white wine?

Well done Nathan, I agree, let's get re-inforcements up there post-haste... I lean toward Cats and MedInf, btw.

	05-06-2003 08:30									#92
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Turn sent. Sorry about not getting back to finish playing it earlier when more people were around. I posted a message to the public board about our having taking Vox's iron supply and trying to encourage others not to supply Vox with iron.

	05-06-2003 08:50									#93
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Nathan = Gathering Storm's very own Donald Rumsfeld.



Now you just gotta yell at some reporters (e.g., Trip ).

Very well written public post... I don;t know exactly why... but a good tone. Some will think it a bit arrogant, but given what we've gone through, and what we've accomplished, I think a bit of attitude is OK.

	05-06-2003 13:40									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Very well written public post... I don;t know exactly why... but a good tone. Some will think it a bit arrogant, but given what we've gone through, and what we've accomplished, I think a bit of attitude is OK.

Those diplomatic messages always seem to do us more harm than good. No matter what we say all the other teams declare us arrogant and threatening. If we say nothing at all they call as isolationist and boring. The situation is a real mess - the bottom line is that they simply hate us (not as individuals, but as a team).

	05-06-2003 14:31									#95
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To the outside they hate us, that's true, but with more posting of this sort, we can create a link between those sane and open minds in the other teams and ourselves. I hardly believe our team is looked upon so unfavorably by EVERYONE as individuals.

	05-06-2003 14:42									#96
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I don't see that anything has changed. Hostilities from the usual suspects Roleplay and GoW, bah, who would've thought? No statement from Lego and ND so far.

	05-06-2003 15:29									#97
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Since we failed to take the catapults this turn, I think we ought to go with the plan of rushing a temple in Inchon next turn - otherwise Inchon 8 is a good point for Vox to mass troops where they can heal. Once we build a temple we gain control of that tile, which a) puts more culture pressure on Elipolis and less on Inchon, and b) means that troops on Inchon 8 can be catapulted without being able to heal.

	05-06-2003 16:08									#98
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Judging by the score and power graphs, GoW appear to have founded a new city or two somewhere. Does someone with the save have any more info than this?

	05-06-2003 17:03									#99
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Temple: keep in mind that it will take five turns for the borders to actually expand to Inchon-8.
Building a temple would be sweet though, if only for being able to heal from Inchon-8 when we stage our own attack against Eliopolis.

	05-06-2003 17:25									#100
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It takes 5 turns for the borders to expand, but my experience is that we will get the two tiles adjacent to both towns immediately. Once two towns have equal claim to the same square, it goes to the one with the highest culture (even if that is only 2 points vs 0 points), and in the case of a tie, goes with the one founded earlier. Unless Vox rushes a temple there before us, we can claim the tile the turn we finish a temple.

	05-06-2003 18:04									#101
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Yes, you're right. I haven't thought of that.

	05-06-2003 18:34									#102
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Man, that thread in the public forum sure backfired.

I think I'm at the point of not caring anymore what other teams think of us. It's pretty clear that lots of people have a deeply ingrained negative impression, and no matter what we say, they will interpret it negatively.

-Arrian

	05-06-2003 18:37									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Man, that thread in the public forum sure backfired. I think I'm at the point of not caring anymore what other teams think of us. It's pretty clear that lots of people have a deeply ingrained negative impression, and no matter what we say, they will interpret it negatively. -Arrian

it would be fun to just declare war on everyone. Suicidal but fun. We could keep them at bay for a while with boats but the eventual tech lead would kill us.

	05-06-2003 19:01									#104
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It's not "the other teams" that "hate us". It's Roleplay and to a certain extent GoW. The latter are whores, though, as they have shown, and will give in if we sweeten a proposed deal. Therefor their present attitude doesn't really matter.

Roleplay does, as the name says, play roles. The current role seems to be hypocrite and penis envier. We should not let them distract us now. Let's finish off Vox and pick on them after that. It sure would be a great pleasure to see their fancy Spanish cities getting razed, but we shall withstand the seduction of the dark side of the force now, for the sake of a quicker victory against Vox.

	05-06-2003 19:08									#105
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And everyone, try to remember that it's a game, and not anything personal...

	05-06-2003 19:11									#106
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SR cracks me up.

	05-06-2003 19:55									#107
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quote: Roleplay does, as the name says, play roles. The current role seems to be hypocrite and penis envier. We should not let them distract us now. Let's finish off Vox and pick on them after that. It sure would be a great pleasure to see their fancy Spanish cities getting razed, but we shall withstand the seduction of the dark side of the force now, for the sake of a quicker victory against Vox.

Sir Ralph, you rock.

-Arrian

	05-06-2003 20:33									#108
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Fine words SR!

I'm not all that stressed with the responses on the board. It hasn't backfired, just allowed some of the players to once again repeat what we knew they were thinking anout us. I wouldn't say I wasn't disapointed, but like every game, one of the kids has to be the "picked on rich-kid" that everyone loves to hate. That just happened to be us, whether we were or are responsible for it or not, I guess we'll just have to except that, in the spirit of the game.

	05-06-2003 23:48									#109
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quote: Originally posted by zeit Fine words SR! I'm not all that stressed with the responses on the board. It hasn't backfired, just allowed some of the players to once again repeat what we knew they were thinking anout us. I wouldn't say I wasn't disapointed, but like every game, one of the kids has to be the "picked on rich-kid" that everyone loves to hate. That just happened to be us, whether we were or are responsible for it or not, I guess we'll just have to except that, in the spirit of the game.

Yeah who loves the Storm that destroys their home?

	06-06-2003 01:19									#110
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Man, Togas pisses me off.

On the other hand, I've had a decent conversation with GodKing via PM. I can post 'em later, if people want.

His basic impression of strained relations between RP & GS comes down to us having a tech lead (not really true anymore) when Togas wanted RP to have it.

To which I responded: well, our GA is just about blown and you have more land, so that will most likely change, and furthermore, wanting a tech lead & choosing Monarchy as a government just don't match up well.

Anyway, we agree that Lego is a real concern - and he too thinks they're about to hit their GA.

-Arrian

	06-06-2003 03:34									#111
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Guys, sorry for the post on the announcement thread, it surely was a mistake of me. I shouldn't have posted this morning in a hurry, when I could have let others take the heat.

In retrospect, not all was bad. RP made a nice comment against Lego, which will certainly be seen. GoW again kind of supports us, with two different members telling they can understand our announcement. Us explaining why we need war declarations might have been the best option all along, although I feel sorry I unwillingly forced the issue

And Togas... Oh well... any public fight against Togas makes you more popular with those that did it before

DeepO

	06-06-2003 03:54									#112
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Public fights against Togas are a waste of time and nerves. He wants to piss people off, he wants to make them upset, and intentionally provokes them, that's his favorite dirty trick out of the court room. He's the reason for all the lawyer jokes floating around. Best is to ignore him and not answer to his trolls. That's the treatment he deserves.

	06-06-2003 04:34									#113
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You're right, SR, however I fear for the reaction of the other members of his team. He posted somewhere that we had no diplomatic contact with anyone from RP after the missed negotiation, but that's not true: I had a couple of long e-mails with GK. This makes me think that after all, GK did not post these messages to RP...

OTOH, it may be his role to be play the good cop, where Togas is the bad cop.

One thing I failed to realize, but that became very clear in this thread: we were thinking on who would possibly provide iron to Vox, but it turns out there is only one team possible: RP. Of course they feel picked upon, their view of the world make them feel the only addressees of our announcement. We always assumed any of the Bobian civs could give iron (in theory they can), but in practice we publicly cut a deal of RP. In retrospect, I can imagine they felt threatened

DeepO

	06-06-2003 06:16									#114
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I have only one thing to say about that fiasco of a thread...

Too many words being typed by too many people. Isn't it about time we appoint a realist Foreign Affairs Minister and let him handle things for us while the rest of us sush up? Or do we want to continue flaying ourselves in public and private channels?

We need a dictator for foreign affairs. There. I said it.

	06-06-2003 06:47									#115
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nye, who would take that role? Mesh was good at it, but seeing as we'll miss him for another year or so, I don't see good replacements. I certainly am not qualified, maybe Zeit is, but somehow I think he misses the dictator aspect we need...

DeepO

	06-06-2003 06:58									#116
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Shiber, FrustratedPoet... I'm not sure who else, because I am not familiar enough with some of the others.

As I am observing both MP demo games, the path to foreign affairs success seems to be in using few words, but doing a lot of listening, among other things.

	06-06-2003 07:09									#117
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I would do that...
I agree with you NYE, I was gonna post a new thread and suggest my assuming the position, but I do not want to conduct a coup or anything like that.

My time is tight, but I am sure I can provide direction that can help. I still have RL above my head, but I ususlly check in once a day lately.

I do have real ideas on how to make it work....

Mss

	06-06-2003 08:23									#118
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Well, zeit is supposed to occupy that post (I think), but I'm afraid he is not going very hard at it. Sorry, zeit, just calling 'em as I see 'em.

Perhaps you and he could talk about it. Maybe he doesn't feel that he would be allowed by the team to 'go hard at it'. Maybe this is what he needs as a catalyst.

Nathan would be good as well, however he seems a little occupied...

The bottom line is that we need a firmer hand at the foreign office tiller. Contacts need to be kept up whether ambassadors are present or not. We need a plan for how we are going to dig out of the diplomatic hole we are in, and we need to follow through with that plan. If you are the one with that plan, if you have the time, and if you have the temperament, then I wish all the power to you and will support what you and zeit decide. I say you and zeit... maybe the two of you can work together, one assisting the other.

	06-06-2003 09:32									#119
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Well, zeit is supposed to occupy that post (I think), but I'm afraid he is not going very hard at it. Sorry, zeit, just calling 'em as I see 'em.

I dont wnat to step n aiets toes, but I can offer general direction Perhaps you and he could talk about it. Maybe he doesn't feel that he would be allowed by the team to 'go hard at it'. Maybe this is what he needs as a catalyst.

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Nathan would be good as well, however he seems a little occupied...

yeah but let him focus on economy. besides he has been picking up MY SLACK for a while now.

quote: The bottom line is that we need a firmer hand at the foreign office tiller. Contacts need to be kept up whether ambassadors are present or not.

That can be a chore if there arent enough around. One more reason to eliminate Vox

quote: We need a plan for how we are going to dig out of the diplomatic hole we are in, and we need to follow through with that plan.

I started a thread to get the process rolling.

quote: If you are the one with that plan, if you have the time, and if you have the temperament, then I wish all the power to you and will support what you and zeit decide. I say you and zeit... maybe the two of you can work together, one assisting the other.

I have ideas, I know (and can predict) how many of the other teams will react to our postures. I died when I saw the public announcment. I saw it for the arrogance it was.

I think I would make a fine filter, but maitaining too many contacts could crush me and set us up for another mess.

Mss

	06-06-2003 14:24									#120
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quote: I dont wnat to step n aiets toes, but I can offer general direction Perhaps you and he could talk about it

Have no worries my friend- I couldn't agree less to what was said here about the need for a new leadership in the FAM.

I actually said I can no longer fulfill those duties of being FAM. I just didn't said that loud enough and made sure I have a replacement, and that is certainly my (very big) bad. I can help with shaping the policy, but that is the purpose of our team of diplomats, so I don't think there is any reason for me to act a "2nd FAM".

Having someone directing the discussing and perhaps having the final word is they way I envisioned our Diploa shcolia in the first place.

I wish you best of luck, MSS.