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HershOstropoler
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18 millimeters, what else.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:28
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Anyone still claiming there's a difference between Staatsminister and Bundesminister?
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HershOstropoler
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Bundesminister ~ secretary
Staatsminister ~ undersecretary; junior minister
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:28
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you've had a Jewish Kanzler in Austria?
Burn!!!
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:28
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Mr Möllemann's highest office was vice chancelor, BTW. It's above the top 5 positzions in this country, if not top 3. I don't know if that was when he was second secretary of state...
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:28
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it is bullshit though. he was politically dead before, so any Jewish conspiracy action would have been a waste of money and effort
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Cruddy
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecthelion
...An image from the 70s or 80s to illustrate his connections to the arab world:
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One thing confuses me about this thread.
Since when was being pro-Arab the same thing as anti-semitism?
Arabs are semites too you know.
Anti-Jewish yes. Anti-Israeli absolutely. Anti-semite? It doesn't fit with this guy.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:28
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it's called irony. there was big media chaos about him. he got the rep of being one, undeservedly.
sort of funny to reduce him to the rep that confused loud media gave him.
and it's true he attempted to attract anti-semites' votes.
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Cruddy
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
None the less there are still plenty who play this little linguistic quiblle (eg "arabs cant be antisemites, arabs are semites")
hope that helps |
Well, that explains it. A Kraut reinventing the English language. Bound to cause trouble. It's not like we go around re-inventing German (we can't even speak it to begin with).
OK then, if I'm
1) Anti-Israel AND
2) Pro-Arab BUT
3) Not Anti-Jewish
Does that just make me Pro-Arab but not anti-semitic? Or does anti-Israeli BY DEFAULT mean I'm anti-semitic? A few answers please - especially from Israeli's. Don't worry, this is a debate, not a slagging match.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Cruddy
Well, that explains it. A Kraut reinventing the English language. Bound to cause trouble. It's not like we go around re-inventing German (we can't even speak it to begin with).
OK then, if I'm
1) Anti-Israel AND
2) Pro-Arab BUT
3) Not Anti-Jewish
Does that just make me Pro-Arab but not anti-semitic? Or does anti-Israeli BY DEFAULT mean I'm anti-semitic? A few answers please - especially from Israeli's. Don't worry, this is a debate, not a slagging match. |
First - being antisemitic and antijewish are synonyms. But note that the jews are a people - if you hate the jewish people but like the religion, you are anti-jewish and antisemitic.
Can you be anti-israel and not anti-jewish?
theres a lot of deabte about that. Of course those are anti-israel generally deny being antijeiwsh. A great many jews and some non-jews would say that given the realities of history, to be antiisrael (i mean completely antiisrael, not just opposed to a specific policy like the occupation of the west bank) is necessarily to be anti-jewish. Even if one accepts in principle the possibility of being anti-israel without being anti-jewish, one must note that holding Israel to different standards from other states, or allowing the jewish people less right to a state than other peoples, can quickly slide into antijewishness. Its like not being anti-black, but being pro-segregation - in theory its possible, and there were certainly some blacks who supported segregation, but its pretty clear that opposing integration effectively meant opposing the interests of blacks, and was usually the position of people who were anti-black. Similarly virtually 99% of Jews agree that Israel is an affirmation of Jewish rights, and that its loss would be of immense harm to all jews, whether they agree with particular policies. And it is very clear, at least to me, that the majority of those who call themselves anti-zionists, are in fact antisemites who fear the name. I would note that in much Arab propaganda jew and zionist are used almost interchangeably - to the point where someone anachronistically wrote that Muhammed defeated the Zionists in Medina (of course there were no "zionists" in 7th c Medina - the Koran says he defeated Jews - so synonomous have the two words become for many)
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Cruddy
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From my POV, I've only heard 2 thirds of the story - one third from the Brits who pulled out in 47, one third from the bedoiun Arabs (NOT the Pals but their cousins so to speak) and, to be honest, sweet fa from the Israeli side.
I thought Israel was not supposed to be a Jewish only state?
I'm going to have to think about this one. Keep posting folks.
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05-06-2003 19:37
true
?
) named Marr decided that being anti-jewish sounded too much like old fashioned religious bigotry - for a modern, racially based jew-hatred based on "science" that could be shared by atheists, not just christians a new term was needed. Since there werent many arabs, carthaginians or akkadians in Germany, Anti-semite worked. In order to avoid confusion, people discussing the phenomenon now usually use the word antisemite, omitting the hyphen, to make it more clear that its just a synonym for jew hatred, not an opposition to all who speak a semitic language. 
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