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Park Avenue
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Liberal and defender of freedoms for the people
Oct 1999
time: 05:28
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Some people seem to think that allowing immigration - even en masse - can be hugely beneficial to our country. Yet is this a nationalist viewpoint, on a par with trade protectionism?
What a disincentive for developing countries to provide for a quality education system when they have to acknowledge that those who the system educates best will most likely take the skills elsewhere, to gain a higher standard of living.
quote:
"Not only are the developing countries losing some of their most talented citizens,they are also losing the scarce capital that has gone into their rearing and training. Education is, after all, an investment in the future. In the case of brain drain from the developing countries, not only does the investment pay no dividends, but the very capital disappears. Moreover, the exodus of highly skilled professionals deprives the sending countries of the services of the persons on whom campaigns of economic and social development must be based." |
John Tanton, The Brain Drain and Countries of Immigration, 1979
That pretty much explains why education is so lacking in developing countries - it is due to Western poaching of talent!
Is it thus left-liberals in this regard who are harming developing nations (who they profess to want to help) by wanting more open immigration policies? Are "nationalists" or "racists" who want an ethnically pure nation really helping the peoples of the developing world?
Discuss. 
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:28
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bods, you really need to lay off the nazitionalist crack pipe.
the people who get educated leave the country because they have better opportunity to make a living elsewhere. best man for the job... if that means a bunch of incompetent white people dont have shitty jobs i dont care. they didnt deserve them in the first place.
corporations dont even need immigrants anymore. they can just hire poor people in their own country.
nationalists and racists dont stop at their own borders with their ideology.
the very idea that you consider yourself as legitimate is disgusting and only proves there are a few nazitionalists left in the world that need to be shown the light.
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:28
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thats the belief of your beloved BNP. british workers first? anti globalisation? etc etc. it all leads up to "brown people take our jobs because our people are too stupid and demand too much"
bods, forcing people to stay in their country and be a doctor and get paid peanuts is not a motivation for becoming a doctor. do you still teach people how to be doctors if the people realize they could make more money in other professions in their native country? of course not.
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:28
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Not all of them leave, and thus education is not totally wasted. Some of them do come back to their home country, even if only to retire, but then they bring money back too.
Now, I agree that the benefit mostly goes to the brain drainers. I don't think the developing countries would benefit from preventing emigration, though. By educating people, they get a smaller return on investment than "developped" countries, but they gain something. By closing their boundaries, would they gain anything? I doubt it, because nothing would enter either.
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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:28
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quote:
Not all of them leave, and thus education is not totally wasted. Some of them do come back to their home country, even if only to retire, but then they bring money back too.
Now, I agree that the benefit mostly goes to the brain drainers. I don't think the developing countries would benefit from preventing emigration, though. By educating people, they get a smaller return on investment than "developped" countries, but they gain something. By closing their boundaries, would they gain anything? I doubt it, because nothing would enter either.
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Let's say that Zaire has educated a Medical Doctor. He then moves to France, spends his entire life there, and retires, back in Zaire ( somewhat doubtful ), with relative wealth. What did exactly Zaire gain?
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Cruddy
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Bods, would they be any less selfish if they refused to employ any non-nationals at all?
I don't think so.
How's about this - limited tenure. You get - I don't know - ten years work permit, and that's your lot? Time to move on?
It stinks of a compromise - but when the Western nations have a mature aged population, you are going to be so glad for those immigrant workers. WIthout them, it would be like 7 pensioners per 10 people working - that's one hell of a tax burden.
So live in the real world and come up with some ANSWERS instead of picking fault with the way things are. I'm sick of this holier than thou crap.
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mrmitchell
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It's all in a free world. BTW who's the chick in your avatar?
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Cruddy
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Picking faults in the way the things are (i.e diagnosing problems) is the first and necessary step to find answers. It isn't enough when it's alone, but it is impossible to find answers if you don't look at the problem first. |
This would be a valid point, but 99% of the time Bodds threads just whinge and whine about how awful the world is without almost no constructive ideas on how to improve things.
That's why I usually turn his arguments on their head and say "would the complete opposite be any better?" before giving a possible compromise or a way out.
I'm really sick of this Spiffor - it's like a CD that plays the same 2 seconds of music over and over again. Maybe I should just put him on my ignore list.
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St Leo
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Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:28
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Toronto Star Article
Jun. 6, 2003. 06:12 PM
Skilled immigrants left in lurch: Report
Not given much help to adapt Skills, education end up wasted
ALLAN THOMPSON
OTTAWA BUREAU
OTTAWA--Canada recruits more and more highly skilled immigrants and then leaves many to virtually fend for themselves, a parliamentary committee reported yesterday.
In a report on the federal government's settlement program for new immigrants, the House of Commons immigration committee said newcomers are increasingly falling through the cracks because of a policy that recruits highly educated and skilled immigrants, but lacks adequate programs to help them adapt.
The committee lamented the situation of immigrants who don't know enough about Canada and its job market before they get here and sometimes see their dreams of a new life fade.
And it said the contradiction of recruiting highly skilled and educated professionals who sometimes end up driving taxis because they can't get professional accreditation to work in this country results in a colossal waste of human resources.
"The current under-utilization of human resources is at odds with the country's immigration goals," the report states.
"Equally important, the impact on the individuals affected -- the PhD who ends up driving a taxi, for example -- is profound. This can become a significant mental-health issue for newcomers."
The report cites testimony from one witness who said the accreditation barriers that stand in the way of foreign-born professionals make a mockery of the immigration program's emphasis on education and work experience.
One witness stated "as a result of accreditation barriers, education is not an advantage and does not seem to pay off for immigrants. If this is indeed the case, the entire skilled worker selection process, with its emphasis on advanced education, would appear to be misguided," the report states.
The chair of the immigration committee, Liberal Joe Fontana (London North Centre) held a press conference with Canadian Alliance committee member Diane Ablonczy (Calgary-Nose Hill) to call on the department to devote more resources to immigrant settlement programs.
The Conference Board of Canada reported recently that more than 500,000 Canadians would earn an additional $4.1 billion to $5.9 billion annually if their experience and credentials were recognized in the workplace.
The committee called on the federal government to follow Australia's example by establishing a new office to co-ordinate the assessment of foreign credentials, rather than leaving the task solely up to provincially regulated professional bodies.
The report points out the immigration department takes in more than $400 million a year by charging immigrants processing fees and a $975 head tax, but at the same time, spends $300 million a year on programs to help them adapt.
Immigration 
Nationalism  :
Social Assistance Programs
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06-06-2003 15:36
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