07-06-2003 23:31									#91
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Where's the "Hell, yeah, but let's get those bastards anyway, Hoo-ahh! option?

	07-06-2003 23:33									#92
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Consider that incorporated with the "Yes" answer.

	07-06-2003 23:35									#93
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Boris: He exaggerated the truth .

I mean, obviously Saddam had SOMETHING. I mean, there was no reason for him to deny UN inspector teams access to his palaces if he was all clean.

Doesn't really matter though because Ollie North did worse and he's a hero to millions .

	07-06-2003 23:58									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I mean, obviously Saddam had SOMETHING. I mean, there was no reason for him to deny UN inspector teams access to his palaces if he was all clean.

My guess is that it was an ego thing. Sort of like when conservatives around here carp about national soveriegnty and the like. Irrational? Sure. But people do lots of irrational things when status is at stake - it's evolutionary.

quote: Doesn't really matter though because Ollie North did worse and he's a hero to millions .

I don't get the Ollie thing. I guess most conservatives don't mind liars as long as the liar is conservative. Did Iraq have WMDs? Depends on what 'did' means ...

	08-06-2003 00:00									#95
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Templar, actually most liars I notice in politics, happen to be on the left.

	08-06-2003 00:02									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Templar, actually most liars I notice in politics, happen to be on the left.

That's because you believe anything said by the right. If a right-winger told you the moon was made of green cheese you'd be telling us how the moon was made of green cheese.

	08-06-2003 00:02									#97
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quote: I don't get the Ollie thing.

The Ollie 'thing' basically comes down to the fact that a bunch of people liked the idea of a guy coming down to Congress and basically telling them to '**** Off'. People would like to do that themselves . That and the fact that a lot of people thought what North was doing was GOOD for the country and Congress was trying to stop what was 'good'.... but mostly it was because he told Congress off.

	08-06-2003 00:06									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I mean, obviously Saddam had SOMETHING. I mean, there was no reason for him to deny UN inspector teams access to his palaces if he was all clean.

If you're paranoid about being assassinated, there is a damned good reason to keep US spies, I mean, UN inspectors out of the palaces. We know the US had spies among the inspectors, we know the US had mentioned that it was considering the assassination of Hussein, and we known that Hussein was ultra-paranoid about assassination anyway. Afterall, he did participate in the assassination a previous Iraqi dicator.

	08-06-2003 00:09									#99
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So what? Have the inspectors monitored at all times. That could suffice for paranoia.

	08-06-2003 00:09									#100
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I love plagarizing people's words on these forums..

That's because you believe anything said by the left. If a left-winger told you the moon was made of green cheese you'd be telling us how the moon was made of green cheese.

Don't you just hate me?

	08-06-2003 00:16									#101
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That's because you believe anything said by the right. If a right-winger told you the moon was made of green cheese you'd be telling us how the moon was made of green cheese.

Don't bother with the little troll. He's just fresh out of high school, and doesn't know **** anyway.

As for paranoia, again, I think the admissions thing came down to ego. Just like Bush and the French - Bush has too much ego to let bygones be by bygones (especially when Bush was wrong).

Saddam also might have thought verifying the lack of WMDs would invite a war all that much quicker. I.e. no weapons no worries of thousands of American troops dying in horrible ways from chem/bio weapons on al Jazeera.

And the infiltration by US spies of the original inspectors probably didn't help matters either.

	08-06-2003 00:18									#102
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Don't bother with the little troll. He's just fresh out of high school, and doesn't know **** anyway.

Oh so age is an issue?

And what about you.. you are nothing but a little communist with a big mouth, and a dumb avatar.

	08-06-2003 00:20									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Boris: He exaggerated the truth .

Tell me what that would be :

Bush enters the press room and starts his speech.
"Dear Citizens of America,
I have grave news for our nation. Our intelligence has sound proof that France has nuclear weapons of mass destruction and a developed chemical program. With these weapons, they can destroy our country, our way of life, and slaughter our children. It is only a matter of time before Paris, capitol of evil, decides to use this arsenal to KILL US ALL !

My dear fellow Americans, in front of this hideous menace, I have decided to launch a preventive attack on France. War has just begun, and Paris is at last harmless now".

Just an exaggeration of reality. After all, France has nukes it is true. I guess it is possible to invent any lies based on this tiny truth ?

	08-06-2003 00:21									#104
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Again, this is only one guy. I would expect if something along the lines of deliberate deception to start a war was going on, there would have been alot more complaints. The State Department is a notoriously liberal organization and if a Republican administration was doing this, there would have alot more people willing to speak out IMO. The CIA is defending it's pre-war performance, and all we have is this one guy making some allegations. Lets wait for some more backup from this man before assuming our entire government was decieving us.

	08-06-2003 00:21									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Tell me what that would be:

Did you ever see Death Race 2000?

"The Evil French have attacked our great race!"

	08-06-2003 00:22									#106
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It's not one guy, BD, it's a leaked DIA report.

	08-06-2003 00:28									#107
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It's one guy, supposedly using DIA information to back him up. The story doesn't like to any DIA paper.

	08-06-2003 00:30									#108
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Shi :

OK, let's make it theoretical.

IF it was obvious and widely prooved that intelligence has been voluntarily "oriented" and "exaggerated" by your administration in order to provide false evidence calling for war, how would you react ?

I'm very interested in your answer.

	08-06-2003 00:32									#109
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Shi is ignoring that in the UK, the same thing is happening, so it's not just "one guy."

Again, Shi...why do you believe the politicians so readily?

	08-06-2003 00:38									#110
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 so i guess hitler was good because without him where would israel be today?

With at least 50% more population, I should think.

	08-06-2003 00:54									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Shi : OK, let's make it theoretical. IF it was obvious and widely prooved that intelligence has been voluntarily "oriented" and "exaggerated" by your administration in order to provide false evidence calling for war, how would you react ? I'm very interested in your answer.

If it was obvious and widely proved that they had made up false evidence I would be very upset.

	08-06-2003 00:57									#112
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Let's put it another way, BD, the Administration isn't denying it.

	08-06-2003 01:01									#113
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I think the Neo-cons plan was:


Get Iraq's oil reserves, hence making OPEC irrelavent.

Have a more central location for bases in the ME.

Gain support of E. Europe, weakening the EU.

get a base to go after Iran.


The lying is because most people don't like the New World Order. The NWOers are using bush as a puppet, it seems to me that Bush and Powell have very little power, it is mostly Cheney, Rummy and Wolfy that have power. Onece peope figure out the Neo-cons' hidden agenda the Republican Party will be dead.

	08-06-2003 01:03									#114
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Um... Odin... you realize Bush IS a neo-con... and therefore is with Cheney, Rummy, and Wolfy, and not Powell?

And I'm sure most people don't mind the "NWO". Power politics didn't turn off America in the past, and it won't now.

	08-06-2003 01:16									#115
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The American people don't like it when it's screwing them. Mention NAFTA in almost any bar and y'er sure to get a bunch of growls.

	08-06-2003 01:25									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I agree with Azazel, but not for the 'liberation' aspect (who really cares, eh?). It's a nice power play. In someways kinda like Reagan with those tiny wars in Latin America saying, hey, we're big, bad, and we'll **** you up. In essense, one reason was to tell the Islamic world that we aren't just gonna putz around in Afghanistan and that's it. Secondly, it gives you a nice base in the middle of the Mid East for deployment to deal with the terrorist problem in the future, without having to actually depend on Saudi Arabia (who knows what will happen in the future when the anti-American Crown Prince ascends fully). If we can get some nice military bases and a fairly stable government in Iraq, it'll all be worth it. I'm not exactly a utilitarian, but I always believe that the ends can justify the means .

Are you happy for supporting your country in a war of conquest?

	08-06-2003 02:08									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Templar, actually most liars I notice in politics, happen to be on the left.

Considering how many times you have been caught in outright lies on this message board, I find it very ironic that you say this. In fact, I think the above is probably a lie as well.

	08-06-2003 02:10									#118
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You think I'd be sad if something I supported happened? Why?

	08-06-2003 02:19									#119
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...Imran....

	08-06-2003 04:49									#120
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I know Bush is a neo-con, but he's not so neocon as the others, on a scale of one to ten Wolfy is a 10, Cheney is a 9, Rummy is an 8, Bush is a 5, and Powell is a 1.