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Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
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Aug 2001
time: 00:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 02:41
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160,000 year old human skulls discovered Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...earlyhumanfaces

quote:

Skulls Offer First Glimpse of Early Human Faces

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD The New York Times

In the 160,000-year-old fossilized skulls of three Ethiopians two adults and a child scientists think they see for the first time the faces of the immediate ancestors of modern humans.

Except for a few archaic characteristics, they are as recognizable as Hamlet's poor Yorick. They are longer than those of earlier ancestors or any contemporary Neanderthals in Eurasia. Their midfaces are broad, but the nasal bones are tall and narrow. The brow ridges are less prominent than the glowering visages looking down from earlier branches of the family tree. And the cranial vaults are higher and within modern dimensions.

The discovery of the oldest near-modern human remains, announced today, is considered a major step in establishing the time and place for the emergence of anatomically modern Homo sapiens probably about 150,000 years ago, as genetic studies have suggested, in Africa.

"We can now see what our direct ancestors looked like," said Dr. Tim D. White, a paleoanthropologist from the University of California at Berkeley, who is a leader of the international team that excavated and analyzed the skulls.

That had been impossible until now because of the frustrating gap in fossil evidence between 100,000 and 300,000 years ago, the presumed interval of transition from prehumans to modern humans.

Dr. Christopher Stringer of the Natural History Museum in London, who did not participate in the research, hailed the findings as "some of the most significant discoveries in early Homo sapiens so far."

Another independent observer, Dr. Richard G. Klein of Stanford University, said, "These are basically modern people, remarkably modern in appearance."

The discovery team and other scientists said in interviews that the research appeared to confirm the idea that modern humans originated in Africa and then spread into Asia and Europe. In that case, they said, the enigmatic Neanderthals, which became extinct in Europe 30,000 years ago, could not have been direct forebears of today's humans.

In a report in new issue of the journal Nature, released online this morning, Dr. White and his collaborators concluded that the Ethiopian skulls "represent the probable immediate ancestors of anatomically modern humans" and that "their anatomy and antiquity constitute strong evidence of modern-human emergence in Africa."

The "out of Africa" hypothesis, forcefully advocated by Dr. Stringer among others, had gained wide support in the two decades since molecular research on the genetic diversity among human populations pointed to a common ancestor in Africa, which inevitably became known as the African Eve. The research was based on evolutionary changes in mitochondrial DNA, which is passed from mother to daughter. Other studies of the male Y chromosome reached similar conclusions.

But scientists had been unable to pin down the time of origin or find supporting fossil evidence. The earliest fossils of modern Homo sapiens, from Ethiopia, South Africa and Israel, are not much more than 100,000 years old.

If correct, Dr. White's group emphasized, the new research ruled out the alternative multiregional hypothesis, held by a minority of scientists. They proposed that modern humans evolved in different parts of Africa, Asia and Europe at roughly the same time from ancient local populations. The Homo erectus species, which had migrated out of Africa much earlier, were thought to have evolved into Asian humans and European humans, possibly through intermediate stages, including Neanderthals.

Dr. Milford Wolpoff of the University of Michigan, who is a leading proponent of the multiregional theory, questioned whether the skulls had any bearing one way or other on the Neanderthals' place in human evolution.

"All the specimens show is that there was a trend of evolution in Africa toward modernity, just as there was in China and Europe," Dr. Wolpoff said.

But Dr. White's group said the fossil skulls showed that Homo sapiens with almost entirely human characteristics had already evolved in Africa before Neanderthals evolved into their classic form. Soon afterward, fully modern Homo sapiens entered Europe, presumably from Africa by way of the Middle East, and the Neanderthals went into their fateful decline.

"We can conclusively say that Neanderthals had nothing to do with modern humans," said Dr. Berhane Asfaw, a co-leader of the discovery team from the Rift Valley Research in Addis Ababa, the Ethiopian capital.

In a background news release to the journal articles, the discoverers said that even if descendants of the transitional people from Ethiopia "interbred with surviving Neanderthal populations, the latter appear to have contributed very little to the modern human gene pool."

The team concluded, "In this sense, we are all African."

The skull fossils were found in 1997 in an arid valley bordering the Middle Awash River near the village of Herto, 140 miles northeast of Addis Ababa. The fossils were buried between layers of volcanic ash, from which project geologists determined their age to be about 160,000 years. When the people the skulls belonged to lived there, paleontologists said, they hunted and fished on the shore of a shallow freshwater lake teeming with catfish, crocodiles and hippos.

The fossils were so badly fragmented, however, that it took years of cleaning, reassembling and analyzing before the discoverers felt they could report their findings. They also kept hoping they would gather more remains. They collected more than 600 stone tools, including hand axes. But they never uncovered the lower jaws to the skulls or any parts of the skeletons.

Anthropologists suspect that the skulls had been deliberately removed from the bodies as part of some ancient mortuary practice. Close inspection revealed parallel incisions around the perimeter of one skull, more cut marks on the other two. Similar modifications have been observed by anthropologists in societies, including some in New Guinea, in which the skulls of ancestors are preserved and worshiped.

The three skulls, all missing the lower jaws, were excavated a few hundred feet from one another. The most complete one, probably that of an adult male, especially impressed scientists with its humanlike size and shape, very nearly modern.

So the discoverers decided the specimen belonged in the same genus and species as modern humans, Homo sapiens. But there were just enough differences, the scientists concluded, that the fossils were probably a subspecies, Homo sapiens idàltu, to differentiate them from fully modern humans, Homo sapiens sapiens. Idàltu is a word meaning "elder" in the local Afar language.

"When we compared the cranium to thousands of modern human crania, several dimensions and characters were outside the modern range," Dr. White said in an interview. "If we just called it homo sapiens sapiens, that implied it's the same thing, and it's actually not the same, though very close."

In a commentary accompanying the journal reports, Dr. Stringer said this fossil "helps to clarify the pattern of early Homo sapiens evolution in Africa, as it shows an interesting combination of features from archai, early modern and recent humans."

The second skull was of an even larger adult with modern human characteristics. The third was the skull of a child who died at the age of about 6 or 7 years. All the specimens are being studied at the National Museum of Ethiopia in Addis Ababa.

"The key point is that we now have good fossil evidence of people like us evolving in Africa when the only people in Europe were Neanderthals," said Dr. Klein of Stanford. "The Herto humans are anything but Neanderthals."


The fossil record fills in more and more!

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 02:47 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Wasn't it recently announced that Cromagnons were't homo sapiens?
Or what was that?

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 02:50
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That would be Neanderthals, as the article mentions. It was once believed Neanderthals were ancestors of Homo Sapiens, but this confirms the thinking over the past 20 years that, in fact, Neanderthals were a separate branch that died out, largely due to our ancestors, Cro Magnon man.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 02:55 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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I saw about the Neanderthals.
That wasn't my question, but I think you answered it.
Thanks.

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
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May 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 02:56 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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hello, boris, my bible says the world cant be moe than, say, 8000 years old. and last time i checked, the bible was the word of GOD, and i think GOD knows a bit about this whole "creation" thing.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 02:58
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If God knew so much about creation, you'd think he would have done a better job of it, for pete's sake!

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
If God knew so much about creation, you'd think he would have done a better job of it, for pete's sake!


as we say is dorky old RPI, "God obviously wasn't an engineer".

Cruddy is offline Cruddy
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Mar 2003
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:16 Visit Cruddy's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Uber KruX
hello, boris, my bible says the world cant be moe than, say, 8000 years old. and last time i checked, the bible was the word of GOD, and i think GOD knows a bit about this whole "creation" thing.



Strange. My Bible lists no copyright notice, which as you know lasts 20 years after the death of the author.

It appears that God is dead and the copyright has expired - either that or God is so ashamed of the Bible that He doesn't want the royalties. He certainly doesn't want the credit for it (although a lot of religioys nuts...er, "organisations" do.

Strangely enough, He's got it printed by a fairly non-descript printing works. You'd think he'd have a couple cohorts of angels to knock out these editions now wouldn't you.

Tell you what - learn ancient Aramaic and read some of the dead sea scrolls, and then tell me if your Bible says the world is no older than 8,000 years. I think you'll find that was down to a certain Bishop Asser (was that his name?) who was great on logic and not so hot on translation.

I also assume you are being ironic and also couldn't give a sh1t over what the Bible says - but hey, I could be wrong.

Nice story Boris. Thanks.

Kramerman is offline Kramerman
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UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Uber KruX
hello, boris, my bible says the world cant be moe than, say, 8000 years old. and last time i checked, the bible was the word of GOD, and i think GOD knows a bit about this whole "creation" thing.




Kramerman is offline Kramerman
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:22
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quote:
Except for a few archaic characteristics, they are as recognizable as Hamlet's poor Yorick.


where was this from? must be pretty sophisticated to include literary allusions and all...

Sava is offline Sava
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:28
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in other news...

quote:


Conclusion of Study Reveals Similarities

by JASON BLAIR New York Times

After years of analyzing skulls believed to be nearly 2 million years old, scientists confirm that Texans, while not a recognized ethnic group, bare almost flawless resemblence of a strain of mentally handicapped cro-magnons. The comprehensive study focuses on the region of Abilene, west of the Dallas-Ft.Worth area.


The Andy-Man is offline The Andy-Man
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Jul 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:28
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any signs of how they lived?

Kramerman is offline Kramerman
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
in other news...







is that for real?

Sava is offline Sava
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:42
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quote:
is that for real?

quote:
by JASON BLAIR

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Uber KruX
hello, boris, my bible says the world cant be moe than, say, 8000 years old. and last time i checked, the bible was the word of GOD, and i think GOD knows a bit about this whole "creation" thing.



Where does it say in the bible that the world is 8000 years old?

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
Where does it say in the bible that the world is 8000 years old?


If one takes a literal interpretation of the Bible, and traces the geneologies and time frame given for specified events (Tower of Babel, Flood, etc), it's feasible to approximate that Genesis begins roughly 8-10 thousand years ago.

GePap is offline GePap
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:15
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I still wonder about those that advocate for a multiple creation theory: I have never ehard anyone even try to claim for example that all brown bears are not the decendents of one population, but of several pre-brown bears that for some reason all decided to end up as the same species.

Why on earth would a species of homo end up being the same everywhere on the Eurasian continent? specially when we have forms like Neanderthal, which show that distinct evolution to better fit local pressures was possible?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:18
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SPRAYBER SIGHTING!!!!

Last edited by Oerdin on 12-06-2003 at 05:36

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:19
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You misspelled his name.

GePap is offline GePap
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:23
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HAHA!
[/nelsonlaugh]

Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:26
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Nelson's laugh is "HAW HAW"

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
You misspelled his name.


None of us is perfect.

I was just wondering though. Because not all those that believe in god sit down and try to map out the lifespan of the earth from the writings of people we know nothing about. And considering the bible we read today has been edited, it probably should not be used as a literal piece in all circumstances.

One more thing a person should ask is, does God measure time the same way people do. I wonder what calender God uses anyway.

i really don't want to get into a religious discussion. after some of the things i done today, i may not be the most qualified.

GePap is offline GePap
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Nelson's laugh is "HAW HAW"


Keep your haw haws to yourself..Ha ha works just as well!

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:29
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The ariticle was interesting though.

There is supposed to be a show on the discovery channel called Walking with Caveman. might be something to watch if a person is interested in this stuff.

Sava is offline Sava
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quote:
None of us is perfect.
Speak for yourself
quote:

I was just wondering though. Because not all those that believe in god sit down and try to map out the lifespan of the earth from the writings of people we know nothing about. And considering the bible we read today has been edited, it probably should not be used as a literal piece in all circumstances.
give the man a cookie! right on!
quote:

One more thing a person should ask is, does God measure time the same way people do. I wonder what calender God uses anyway.
our perception of time is based upon our biology... it is logical to assume a higher power's perception of time would be much different
quote:

i really don't want to get into a religious discussion. after some of the things i done today, i may not be the most qualified.
there are no qualifications when dealing with faith... that's the beauty about it... your opinions and thoughts on God are just as relevant and important as the Pope's or whoever you would consider to be "more qualified" the fact is, no living human being is qualified to explain what lies beyond death.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber


None of us is perfect.

I was just wondering though. Because not all those that believe in god sit down and try to map out the lifespan of the earth from the writings of people we know nothing about. And considering the bible we read today has been edited, it probably should not be used as a literal piece in all circumstances.

One more thing a person should ask is, does God measure time the same way people do. I wonder what calender God uses anyway.

i really don't want to get into a religious discussion. after some of the things i done today, i may not be the most qualified.


Therein lies the difference between a rational religious person and a religious fundamentalist.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
the fact is, no living human being is qualified to explain what lies beyond death.


That's one area that I plan on staying ingorant on for as long as possible.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:39
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Can I get a "Hallelujah?"

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Why is there that fossil gap between 100'000 and 300'000 years? I guess this makes us a very young species, which is ...weird.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:47
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Not really. Climate change often causes specizations (that would be new species to form) so the beginning and end of the ice age should be ideal times for new species to emerge.

 
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